halcyon / elizabethan / twister?

cumbrian

cumbrian

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After a suitable period of lurking, it’s time to request scuttlebutt wisdom on the usual newbie “my next boat” question.

I’ve a budget of around 15k and limited but growing experience on my Jeanneau 19 - wanting to move up to a bigger and more “satisfying” sub 30 foot boat for use in the northern irish sea. Usually sailing with one or two others, but also singlehanded and rarely with family (two young kids).

Ports are far between in these parts so some speed will help (and lets not rule out fun). Options narrowing to Halcyon 27, Elizabethan 29/30 and Twister (bit over budget but occasionally found _just_ over). The Halcyon might be cramped with fidgety kids and Liz 30 better accom (but rare). Twister has the rep and the style but are they really worth 2x a Halcyon? Liz 30 not so easy for novice singlehanding?

There are few such boats to cast an eye over up this way so all views welcome.
 
How about a Jaguar 27 ? I was very happy with mine, faster than a Contessa 28, will always look after you in a blow, easy to single-hand, I went on my own alot. Ideal for a couple to handle, we went all over the East Coast in ours including trips to France, Belgium and Holland. You should be able to get a good one for under 15k - see the Jaguar owners website, they often have J27's for sale. See:- http://www.jaguaryachts.co.uk/jag27.html
 
thanks PetiteFleur - so far Jaguars had not come up on my list - and there is one presently for sale on the onwer's site will add to the pot..
 
Nothing wrong with other two but it is very hard to work out how to find better value for money, quality and sea keeping than the Halcyon. be my choice every time. With the change from your budget you could re-rig and get new sails. Bargain.
 
Hurley 30 if you want space and security in a blow.
Liz 30 is perfectly easy to singlehand.
How about a Hustler 30..similar to the Liz 30 but a touch faster.
How about a Sabre 27...great sea boats, good price and seaworthy.
 
value is the word that keeps springing to mind with re the halcyon - although price is usually linked to desirability - so what's the catch?
 
hurley and sabre both seem well priced options bobbobin - good to know Liz 30 ok to singlehand - i'd considered the hustler - bang on budget but again wondered if racy for singlehanding?
 
[ QUOTE ]
so what's the catch?

[/ QUOTE ] Space and speed. I overtook a Halcyon 27, he was flying a screecher and I had just the genoa when I sailed a Macwester 28 lord help us. There's no room in a Halcyon, though there is no other 27 footer I'd rather be in when it blows a real gale, superb heavy weather boats
Go for the Lizzie any day, just compare the designers' pedigree on performance and packing a lot into a small package.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Go for the Lizzie any day, just compare the designers' pedigree on performance and packing a lot into a small package.

[/ QUOTE ]
29 or 30 /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
29 cheaper, more common, heel more (bad for kids!)?
30 tad faster, roomier?
 
[ QUOTE ]
value is the word that keeps springing to mind with re the halcyon - although price is usually linked to desirability - so what's the catch?

[/ QUOTE ]

No catch, good boat, ours has done the Atlantic circuit with 2 on board so not that cramped, never found it slow, and the first boat the wife will helm.

There is one listed on the Offshore site here for about £10,000.

Best of luck

Brian
 
price is usually linked to desirability - so what's the catch?
_________________________________________________

The catch to avoid is cult status. Value is secondary to cult. Check out Twister. Contessa 32, Vancouver 27 etc for examples of overpriced boats. There are examples of Vancouver 27's out there that are seriously asking over £50,000. For an old 27 foot boat for goodness sake. Okay if you can afford it I suppose as they are good boats, but there are many other examples of less popular boats that do not enjoy a cult following.
 
Fortunately my boat, an Invicta 26 does not enjoy a cult following and is therefore reasonably priced.

Slightly smaller and less roomy than the Halcyon, slightly more room than a Co26, a very fine seaboat, built like a br................ouse, easily singlehanded, comfortable for 2, possible for three and probably possible for two adults and two kids for short periods.

Not a very fashionable boat so priced accordingly. (leaving plenty of dosh for all those extras)
 
The Liz 30 is by far the best of your bunch for your money, it is a sweet sailing boat and was designed to win the Half Ton Cup when strong winds upwind were expected. The designer of the Liz 30 is David Thomas (Sigma fame) and all these years later he now chooses to own a Liz 30 again! I had one and loved it and still have a half model of it hanging in the lounge and a picture in the office, this is over 20 years later! The Liz 30 was a cheaper option to a CO32 and with the same space below and the same performance, easily handled short handed and very capable in bad weather. I sailed mine back with just wife and 2 young kids on board from St Vaast to Poole in 10 hrs in an unforecast F8 that had every lifeboat on the central UK coast out for the boats in trouble on the Channel Race. We also won our then club's regatta, open to all local clubs, with a 1st and 2nd place in two days of F7 wind racing round the cans and we had just two of us on board not a race crew.

The Liz 29 is a good boat but older and totally different, short waterline and cramped accomodation like a Folkboat. Twisters are very good but silly money for what they are to get a good one. Halcyon 27 is good too but smaller and slower than the Liz 30 but then probably much cheaper.

Another boat you might well consider would be a Hustler 30, Holman & Pye design like Twister but IMO much nicer.
 
[ QUOTE ]
. . . bang on budget . . .

[/ QUOTE ] I would keep 25-30% of the budget in hand to fund the equipment and jobs you're bound to want after the experience of a couple of outings.
 
\'ere we go again!!

We bought our Halcyon 27 in 1972. reason: more room than the Conti 26 or Invicta, couldn't afford Liz 29.
They were poorly built by Offshore Yachts and are tender compared with a Twister, hence the price differential.

Next came a deep-fin Arpege (beat Hustler 30, Liz 30 and T31 in the '65 Half Ton Cup).

Divorce reduced me to chartering (Fulmar, Conti 32, Sigma 33, multihulls) then guess what?
A Jouet 920, with tall rig. So Mr Brace has a point!

I would be concerned what condition 30-year old boats might be like now and would seriously consider doubling your ante by finding a partner with similar ideas and equal dosh with a view to buying something bigger and/or newer.
 
robin you paint a perfect picture, complete with detail - thanks for that.

great help from recent posts, giving some depth to my presently superficial info at present.

views on overpricing of cult marques. v useful - hustler and jouet 920 creeping on to list, although latter would break freestyle's "keep budget in hand" rule

"culty" twister creeping off list? although Twisterowner is offering some unbiased opinion that could change all that /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

keep it coming folks!
 
Best if I let them speak for themselves!

Have a look at the Twister Class Association web page.

By the way, there is an excellent class association which is a long way from being a "cult". Very democratic and informal. New members are very welcome.

They always were a bit more expensive than similar sized boats, even when new but this was due to the build quality. The hulls were very strongly built by Tylers and most were fitted out to a high standard by Uphams of Brixham.
 
I can't speak for the others, but the Halcyon 27 is a good sea-boat. Likes sailing well heeled; you'll find the lee toe-rail in the water a lot of the time! But the advantage is that in a gust she just leans over and spills the wind. By today's standards the accommodation is limited, but we sailed with a family of 4 quite comfortably for several years in the 60s. Traditional long-keel design; she will go backwards, but she chooses where you're going! Price is simply because this is an older boat.

Nostalgia rules for me! I did a lot of sailing on my Dad's Halcyon in the 1960s, when I was a teenager.
 
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