Halberg Rassy - something a bit different

[matt1]

What is the price of this new model? Anyone have a price list available?

Garold

about £500k

 

[Ludd]

That's a big claim, do you have data to back that up? Alternative opinions could be: it is perceived to be easy to go long distance cruising but in fact the reality is that it is quite a tough thing to do with considerable risk and that is what frightens people off after they have done a bit; or that it is boring and living in foreign climates is boring. Both these are just comments based on no analysis what so ever.

It is a fact that modern designs are being sailed all over the world quite successfully.

I like my Hallberg Rassy Rasmus, a revolutionary design ( of its day) that sold in large numbers. She's 44 years young and will cross the Atlantic this year.
I won't be around to see if a HR44 can do the same in 2063!

 

[geem]

That's a big claim, do you have data to back that up? Alternative opinions could be: it is perceived to be easy to go long distance cruising but in fact the reality is that it is quite a tough thing to do with considerable risk and that is what frightens people off after they have done a bit; or that it is boring and living in foreign climates is boring. Both these are just comments based on no analysis what so ever.

It is a fact that modern designs are being sailed all over the world quite successfully.

I think the opposite is true. Given the correct boat it isnt that tough. The risks are not that great. Look at the insurance costs for such a trip. Compared to the cost of the boat they are small. Proportionally a lot smaller than insurancing your car. Insurers wouldnt cover you if the risks were great.
Cruising in foreign countries may not suit everbody but there are an estimated 26,000 yachts in the Caribbean so obviuosly plenty of people dont find it boring.
The average sized yacht in the Caribbean is approximately 45ft long. If you remove the charter boats that are predominately modern designs the remaining liveaboard boats tend to be older designs. They sprout all the liveaboard additions of self steering, wind generators, solar panels, radar that dont exist on the charter boats. There are plenty of Island Packets, Halberg Rassys and Marlos. Not modern designs and not cheap boats but they are chosen over modern designs presumabley like me as they find them more suited to the cruising we do.
We have several friends who have shipped their modern boats home. Only a small sample I know but I dont blame them. Sailing long distance in a boat that slams and has poor cockpit protection from the wind and rain is no fun. Lack of sleep from the noise of slamming and no handholds is also no fun. Aprt from that they are lovely to cruise around the waters of the Caribbean. Its just getting there and back that is the problem. If you sail two handed the situation is compounded. You need to get good sleep and you need a boat that allows this. It may be slower but its comfortable and safe

 

[pvb]

about £500k

I'd guess closer to £600K inc VAT by the time typical options have been added.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just look at the entry lists for the ARC which reflect the fact that people have discovered that you don't need an older style heavy displacement boat for long distance cruising.

That might equally be taken to suggest that owners of older style heavy displacement boats don't feel the need to cluster together for protection in the ARC.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The new HR44 is a RR Evoque.

You need a fake tan and white stilettos to own one?

 

[LadyInBed]

If I could afford that sort of money, I would buy an Amel.

 

[dunedin]

The new HR44 is a RR Evoque. People driving old Series III 109 Landrovers will tut and mutter into their half pint of craft beer, but they were never, and will never be the buyers of new vehicles. So why give a shit what they think.

Quite correct (although I would have compared the HR to a full blown RR or perhaps Porsche Cayenne - the RR Evoque is a bit too down market!)

Old grumblies who like 30-40 year old boats tend to buy ...... well 30-40 year old boats. And there are plenty of them around.

HR are only interested in people with a minimum of half a million Euro spare cash, and ready and willing to spend on a new boat - and preferably 1-2 million Euro. Most of these people will already have a RR /. Porsche Cayenne, and like modern technology in home, car and boat.
Things like twin rudders have been shown to give better stability at speed, particularly under autopilot with asymmetric kites up. And many owners will appreciate the ability to stow a dinghy in a garage between the rudder stocks.
Bright spacious interiors with hull windows are better for live aboard - I am sure HR will still ensure practical and safe at sea.

We looked at a few second hand HR's - the ones pre 372 generation didn't appeal to us - too dark, cramped and potentially slow - though clearly they do to many. And the 372 was too ambitiously priced (hence it didn't sell for over a year).
But as Motor_Sailor emphasises, the preferences of armchair pundits without a large pile of Euros to spend on a new boat are irrelevant. Time doesn't stand still, and designs advance.

 

[dom]

HR are only interested in people with a minimum of half a million Euro spare cash, and ready and willing to spend on a new boat - and preferably 1-2 million Euro. Most of these people will already have a RR /. Porsche Cayenne, and like modern technology in home, car and boat.

Sooo many assumptions

 

[Blue Sunray]

Assuming it was written by a Swede, I'm not going to get pedantic over correct nautical English terminology.

Pete

Goodness me you are generous, I'm sure he/she will appreciate your forbearance.

 

[Tranona]

That might equally be taken to suggest that owners of older style heavy displacement boats don't feel the need to cluster together for protection in the ARC.

If you do a longitudinal study of the entry lists you will find it reflects the change in the market. 20 years ago the older type of boat (unsurprisingly as that was mostly what was available) dominated. HR are just following the market.

 

[Tranona]

The average sized yacht in the Caribbean is approximately 45ft long. If you remove the charter boats that are predominately modern designs the remaining liveaboard boats tend to be older designs. They sprout all the liveaboard additions of self steering, wind generators, solar panels, radar that dont exist on the charter boats. There are plenty of Island Packets, Halberg Rassys and Marlos. Not modern designs and not cheap boats but they are chosen over modern designs presumabley like me as they find them more suited to the cruising we do.

IP have gone bust, Malo build in penny numbers, Najad have been bust at least twice and no longer make old style boats. HR sales have dropped by 50% - in 2015 their exhibition boat at Southampton was 7 years old because nobody in the UK was buying new ones.

The people you mention as using old style boats (like you) are not the market for new boats. The used boat market is stuffed full of older style boats at a fraction of the price of new ones.

New HR 41 are half a million £s when fully specced. I considered an HR 31 when I bought my new boat in 2015 because the base price was within reach of my budget. However when specced to the level I wanted it was literally twice the price of the boat I bought. This was not the case 10 years ago when the premium might have been around 60%. To try and keep this premium down HR have adopted many of the production techniques of the mass producers, but even then they still have to deal with the fact that their volumes are small and they build boats in the most expensive country in Europe.

Sure some people will buy their ultimate dream boat and have the money to do it, but that number is clearly declining, and they seem to prefer modern boats.

 

[pvb]

Things like twin rudders have been shown to give better stability at speed, particularly under autopilot with asymmetric kites up. And many owners will appreciate the ability to stow a dinghy in a garage between the rudder stocks.

Unfortunately, the HR44 doesn't offer that - only a drop-down bathing platform.

 

[pvb]

IP have gone bust, Malo build in penny numbers, Najad have been bust at least twice and no longer make old style boats. HR sales have dropped by 50% - in 2015 their exhibition boat at Southampton was 7 years old because nobody in the UK was buying new ones.

The people you mention as using old style boats (like you) are not the market for new boats. The used boat market is stuffed full of older style boats at a fraction of the price of new ones.

New HR 41 are half a million £s when fully specced. I considered an HR 31 when I bought my new boat in 2015 because the base price was within reach of my budget. However when specced to the level I wanted it was literally twice the price of the boat I bought. This was not the case 10 years ago when the premium might have been around 60%. To try and keep this premium down HR have adopted many of the production techniques of the mass producers, but even then they still have to deal with the fact that their volumes are small and they build boats in the most expensive country in Europe.

Sure some people will buy their ultimate dream boat and have the money to do it, but that number is clearly declining, and they seem to prefer modern boats.

Have to agree with that. The market is shrinking for specialist builders, leading to ever-higher prices. When I sold my HR352 in 2014, I would have loved to buy an HR372, but it was adding up to about 3 times the price of a similar-sized Bavaria. And although HRs are nicely built, they're not necessarily better built. Hull weights are comparable with AWBs. Much of the equipment comes from the same makers who equip AWBs.

But it's undeniable that Hallberg-Rassy have refined the ability to make their boats look absolutely gorgeous, in fact they look so gorgeous that people will pay the premium to own one. I can't think of many other builders who've achieved the same level of appeal - maybe Oyster, Gunfleet, Discovery and Rustler in the UK?

The HR44 is about £450K inc VAT in its basic form. Most buyers would add a huge list of options, probably including anchor/chain/windlass, in-mast furling, electric winches, full electronics, bow- and stern-thrusters, extra batteries, generator, microwave, washing machine, television, queen-size bed in aft cabin, carpets, etc, etc. So the bill would end up around £600K or more. It's a lot of money when you look at AWB prices.

 

[JumbleDuck]

IP have gone bust, Malo build in penny numbers, Najad have been bust at least twice and no longer make old style boats. HR sales have dropped by 50% - in 2015 their exhibition boat at Southampton was 7 years old because nobody in the UK was buying new ones.

Don't forget that Bavaria effectively went bust, lost their then owners the thick end of a billion euros, are now building at less than half capacity and are looking to diversify into, for example, catamarans.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But it's undeniable that Hallberg-Rassy have refined the ability to make their boats look absolutely gorgeous, in fact they look so gorgeous that people will pay the premium to own one. I can't think of many other builders who've achieved the same level of appeal - maybe Oyster, Gunfleet, Discovery and Rustler in the UK?

I was invited aboard a newish HR a couple of years ago. Nice enough, if a bit bland, but it was interesting to see what turned up when the the three children aboard started playing hide and seek. My goodness, what a lot of cheap looking plywood lurks under that shiny interior.

 

[pvb]

I was invited aboard a newish HR a couple of years ago. Nice enough, if a bit bland, but it was interesting to see what turned up when the the three children aboard started playing hide and seek. My goodness, what a lot of cheap looking plywood lurks under that shiny interior.

As long as it's marine ply, it probably doesn't matter! What HR have achieved is a look which just seems right. Very clever.

 

[Tranona]

Don't forget that Bavaria effectively went bust, lost their then owners the thick end of a billion euros, are now building at less than half capacity and are looking to diversify into, for example, catamarans.

Yes, that is true - but their answer was to completely redesign their range and improve the quality and build of the boats with even more automation and use of advanced materials. Also they have expanded their MOBO range to fill the gap left by the UK MOBO builders (as have Beneteau and Jeanneau). The multihull business was an acquisition.

They are in a much stronger position than HR. As I noted above the price differential has widened. Not that many people would be making a direct choice, but their boats are just so expensive now and difficult to see the added value in relation to the price premium.

 

[dunedin]

Not that many people would be making a direct choice, but their boats are just so expensive now and difficult to see the added value in relation to the price premium.

Sadly a lot of truth in that, particularly if the objective of the buyer is to get as big a boat as possible for their money.

But there is still a market, albeit a minority one, who would prefer a higher quality 40 footer over a 60 foot AWB (which is bigger than most couples need, even if it is affordable to some).
In practice few people actually need anything from a car that a Skoda Yeti cannot deliver from a practicality factor. But masses of punters spend double the cash on a top BMW, Audi etc.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

If that cockpit is 2.29 metres long then those benches look a little short to lay out full length on. I don't think that's very impressive for £500K ish (at a guess) "luxury" passage maker.