had my first close collision encounter today
- Thread starter oGaryo
- Start date
oGaryo
Well-Known Member
My point exactly: I'm afraid that from a colreg viewpoint you actually were underway.
Or that's what the @rse-in-the-air helmsman could have argued, anyway.
Mind, I'm not defending him at all. Quite the opposite, in fact: I'm just worried that in the event of a collision he might have had some formally correct argument in his favour.
You know, the fact that he wasn't on lookout is much harder to prove than the collision dynamic, if he would have crashed - heaven forbid - his bow against the stbd side of your boat...
PS: "mappy", I like that!
point well taken
and glad you like the creative license applied to your user name
Searush
Well-Known Member
tut tut Mr Rushplease stick to the facts eh
Eh? "Drift fishing off Calshot Spit"
So weren't you almost stationary in a place where boats are likely to be to passing the Spit? I'm sorry, I thought that's what you wrote in the OP.
There's a lot of small boat fishing goes on in the Straits, where I am. Sometimes there can be half a dozen little boats scattered across a fast tidal passage. It can be trciky to get round them all & not disturb their fishing & then a MoBo flies past at speed & leaves 'em all half swamped & with hooks in their fingers if they are baiting at the time.
Everyone has a right to be on the water but we all need to be aware of the needs of others & to try not to impact on them. Enjoy your fishing & carry an aerosol air horn. 5 blasts is the correct signal I think. But you need to do it early & starting the engine or rowing is actually more effective at saving your skin.
rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
That's fine in open water, but not where there are other vessels about surely? I recognise that when crossing an ocean single handed, there is a need for an autohelm - likewise when you 'nip below', but like you said you look around first. In this instance o/p wasn't under way so the 'look around' was either non-existent or not sufficient. I don't believe speed comes into it other than the faster you are moving the more important the lookout. Just because a boat is only moving at 5 knots surely doesn't excuse it from keeping suitable watch? I don't know the waters you sail so wouldn't comment, but get the idea that sailing 'blind' in the Solent is ill-advised...
(P.S. I think o/p said he was outside the channel)
oGaryo
Well-Known Member
sorry, think you've missed a previous statement, we were well outside the channel... round the back of the spit about 50 yds where the RNLI moor their boat and just outside the other moored boats further out towards Hythe.
Besides, if we were in the channel and this chap wasn't providing a decent lookout then that has to be worse, right? I think what he's done is come out the channel, set course for home port, presumably Hythe and took his eye off the ball as he readies his boat for the lock.
Besides, if we were in the channel and this chap wasn't providing a decent lookout then that has to be worse, right? I think what he's done is come out the channel, set course for home port, presumably Hythe and took his eye off the ball as he readies his boat for the lock.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Speed is critical for 2 reasons;
1/ the faster you go the more ground you cover while "not looking" I suspect this is why some MoBo drivers seldom look behind them.
2/ the faster you hit someone, the more damage you do.
As I said, maybe 100m at 5kts while I nip below, it's easy to check that area is clear around me. At 20kts that's 1/4 mile, not so easy to check it is clear or to judge the distance.
Tide can make a difference too, 5kts thro the water may be 2-3 over the ground & it seems slow, but the drifting boat is "making" 2-3kts towards one as well. Probably the yottie saw the boat, ASSUMED it was anchored & thus thought he had enough time to look down. Not all yotties know that people fish while drifting, some yotties would never consider allowing their boat to drift without anchoring or running the engine.
As always we need to understand about the other guy's point of view. Sure he is wrong, but if you understand why he made the mistake, you will be ready if it ever happens again.
1/ the faster you go the more ground you cover while "not looking" I suspect this is why some MoBo drivers seldom look behind them.
2/ the faster you hit someone, the more damage you do.
As I said, maybe 100m at 5kts while I nip below, it's easy to check that area is clear around me. At 20kts that's 1/4 mile, not so easy to check it is clear or to judge the distance.
Tide can make a difference too, 5kts thro the water may be 2-3 over the ground & it seems slow, but the drifting boat is "making" 2-3kts towards one as well. Probably the yottie saw the boat, ASSUMED it was anchored & thus thought he had enough time to look down. Not all yotties know that people fish while drifting, some yotties would never consider allowing their boat to drift without anchoring or running the engine.
As always we need to understand about the other guy's point of view. Sure he is wrong, but if you understand why he made the mistake, you will be ready if it ever happens again.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Often I see small boat, obviously angling, towards the edge of the river channel and make the mistake of assuming it anchored and adjust course as necessary. A moment of two later it becomes apparent that it isn't anchored as by then it has drifted towards the centre of the river. It would be nice if there was a day shape for this as the lack of an anchor ball can't really be relied upon.
From time to time I do wonder what the status under colregs would be for difting boat like this is.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Just a thought searush but your post could explain why mobos sometimes get a bad name..........
Mobo drifting in a favourable tide having a can of beer and saving fuel.
Notices a raggie on collision course.
Starts the engines and sets off @ 30 knots to avoid the collision.
Raggies gets knocked about, spills his pot noodle all over himself,
pops his head out the hatch to see
a flybridge passing him at close quarters 30knts waiving a can of ale and shouting
raggie then sails into Chichester tacking in front of all the mobos in an attempt to reek havoc/revenge, this sail power frictions explained at last so now we know AND IT WAS A raggie that started it
oGaryo
Well-Known Member
did make me think about that too, especially on a mobo s to where I'd mount the thing to make it visible (up by the anchor light I guess)... what did it for me was looking at the angles between he and I, they didn't change so either his course was altering at the same rate as my drifting, or I wasn't drifting quickly at all and was effectively stationary, or I was drifting away from him... it was the latter in my opinion as we'd not moved out toward the channel much at all but had drifting away from the spit towards Hythe...
all said and looking for positives... one thing this experience has done is to drive home the need for me to keep a good lookout, it saved our skin on this occasion.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Oh lord, am I going to regret this...
Next time, you might think about exhibiting two balls
Perhaps I should rephrase that:
After a day in the sunshine, as darkness looms, you could exhibit two red balls.
No, no, no...
Start again:
You might consider displaying the shapes for, "a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel."
Then the job's a good 'un because, as a NUC, you have bragging rights over almost everyone.
Just the minor issue of persuading the authorities that operating a fishing rod and, perhaps, a cup of tea whilst drifting is sufficient to qualify as Not Under Command for the purposes of the Colregs.
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epervier
Well-Known Member
Mountains and mole hills come to mind reading through this thread, near miss is swapping fender rubber in Southampton Water/Solent, you had time to start engine make sure Caley was secure and motor out of harms way, jobs a'goodin, end of.
oGaryo
Well-Known Member
Mountains and mole hills come to mind reading through this thread, near miss is swapping fender rubber in Southampton Water/Solent, you had time to start engine make sure Caley was secure and motor out of harms way, jobs a'goodin, end of.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Gary, I agree with you. It is pointless discussing the finer points of the colregs with a mouth full of sea water, and family members in distress. For me the colregs mean keep out of everyone's way. Same when driving for me too.
epervier
Well-Known Member
.Oh lord, am I going to regret this...
Next time, you might think about exhibiting two balls
In which case you've pulled your trousers down too far,
Perhaps I should rephrase that:
After a day in the sunshine, as darkness looms, you could exhibit two red balls.
In which case you shouldn't have laid in the sun at the wrong end of Studland all day and they will swell up
No, no, no...
Start again:
You might consider displaying the shapes for, "a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel."
Then the job's a good 'un because, as a NUC, you have bragging rights over almost everyone.
Just the minor issue of persuading the authorities that operating a fishing rod and, perhaps, a cup of tea whilst drifting is sufficient to qualify as Not Under Command for the purposes of the Colregs.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Coll regs? a boat on passage has to avoid running down any one at anchor or drifting surely. Even if only as "overtaking" vessel.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
drift fishing with my youngest lad off Calshot this afternoon after a fantastic couple of days with him on the water and spied 'a boat' heading straight for us a few hundred yards off.. sat there for a minute or so expecting him to alter course but ended up having to ask the lad to reel in at the same time as I started the engine to motor off out the way.. passed him on his starboard side to see him with his backside in the air mucking about with something on the cockpit floor and his missus looking down in to the galley area.. they were completely oblivious to the near miss
So you drifted across the course of a boat under power and then had to start your engine to get out of it's way. What is there to complain about? Where does it say boats under power should stop to allow someone drifting through choice to pass in front of them (unless you had sails up and no wind of course)?
SimbaDog
Well-Known Member
[2068]
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Hi,
I'm prepared to be wrong, but I believe you are technically correct as both boats are under way. However, there are a number of drifting fishing vessels to be found in busy places such as the entrance to Chichester Harbour. General etiquette seems to be to go around them wherever possible, and I'm fairly certain a MAIB investigation would take a dim view of someone that failed to either stop or go around, and collided with one due to inattention.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
They would certainly take a dim view of a vessel that chose to drift across a narrow channel such as Chichester and not starting their engine to avoid a collision.
[2068]
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Take your point, it's a shared responsibility not to collide
Most of the main channel in chichester hbr is not defined to be "narrow", though.