Guns for USA liveaboard cruisers

[wklein]

I also think having a gun is a stupid idea, if you pull a gun on an armed intruder your chnaces of survival are less thank 50/50. Also civilised Americans all say that they wish there were not so many guns in the country but have done nothing to try to resolve it, a full amnesty is never going to work, but what about saying all firearms must be kept in locked gun cabinets? Would that impede civil liberties so much?

 

[sunshinesailing]

Some on this thread suggested that a US forum would be a better place to have this discussion. During the past weekend we started this thread on a major US forum whose rules said they permit discussion on weapons. The rules also stated they will not tolerate rudeness. So we asked the same question "should cruisers in the US carry a weapon" After just a few answers to the question rudeness took over and the thread was removed from the forum.
This is consistent with what we have found and that is that Americans really do not want to discuss weapons. It is a serious problem for the country.
Some of you have suggested we leave. We haven't yet run from Any threats and choose to stay and manage our ability to respond to and to manage the threat. This week we will make a reservation at a weapons training school and learn more about this subject in order to help us decide if we should have a gun while cruising the USA.

 

[michael_w]

SWMBO and I have sailed between Florida and Newfoundland several times. At no time did we ever feel threatened on the waterfront. Just astounded by the friendly welcome wherever we went.

Sure, if you frequent the dodgier parts of some cities you may feel threatened. Just use your brains.

 

[SHUG]

Some figures.
Last year in the states there were 11,000 homicides and 19,000 suicides with guns. If that's not a crazy society........

 

[TimBennet]

Some figures.
Last year in the states there were 11,000 homicides and 19,000 suicides with guns. If that's not a crazy society........

Do you have the figures for foreign cruising yachtsmen attacked whilst on their boats?

More typical of cruising in the States, is our experience in Beaufort, North Carolina. We put in there to pick up Poste-Restante only to find that all the post for foreign cruisers was held at the bigger post office across the water in Morehead City. When we asked in the diner for the easiest way to walk there, the owner insisted we took his car, and in fact could keep it all day so we could get to the laundrette and the supermarket (Piggly Wiggly).

And when we were in Fernandina Beach at Thanksgiving, a bloke walked up to the boat and said "Hey you pommie *******s, you better come up the house and have a meal with us. I don't want you not having 'family' on a day like this.

And when we were in Anacortes, a man walked up and said "Hey you want a job - all you cruisers are always broke. Come and help me re-roof my garage! I'll pay you ten bucks an hour".

Or Maine lobster men who threw lobsters that had lost one claw into our cockpit as they went by despite being anchored in harbours that the pilot book said weren't friendly to cruisers.

Etc, etc.

Never once did I have the urge to shoot anyone.

 

[GrahamM376]

Some figures.
Last year in the states there were 11,000 homicides and 19,000 suicides with guns. If that's not a crazy society........

Had a quick look at statistics, Delaware had something like 45 murders, Manchester UK 35 and 40,000 crimes against the person, nearly double Delaware. Stats vary from site to site.

 

[Tranona]

Voice of reason! Exactly my experience of the US. Never once felt unsafe and always received kind treatment - except from the New York lawyers in a trade case I got caught up in. At least they smiled while they were trying to screw you and sending big bills to head office!

 

[JAT]

I am a full time live aboard in Florida. We have lived on our boat for 14 years. Not once in that time have I ever had the occasion to feel threatened such that I would go and find one of my firearms. Yes, I own three.... They are kept stowed away well out of sight. I really doubt that the US is really anymore dangerous than the UK... Especially in boating areas. Of course....caution while on foot in large cities...especially areas of the cities that look bad...is advisable, or even better you avoid those areas. Large US cities are like large cities in other countries....

We have cruised from Annapolis, Maryland all the way down through the Keys and all the way back north on the west coast of Florida out to Mobile, Alabama. We have stayed in marinas and we have anchored out....we have never had a problem. Probably the worst thing one might expect is if you are in a marina and there is a liquor serving establishment in the marina...you might have to "redirect" a drunk off your boat...but that is not sufficient reason to lock and load.

I will politely suggest....that if you are not a US citizen...that you do not try to purchase a gun here. You have to remember...we are made up of 50 states and almost every one of them has its own rules.....especially where guns are concerned. I live in Florida....and as I have no criminal record or any kind...I can get a "concealed weapons carry permit"....easily. I do not have one. I do not feel the need for one. Neither does my wife. On the other hand....some states...consider "pepper spray" to be a weapon and it is illegal to possess. New York and Massachusetts are two states you do not want to be found with a gun that is not licensed in that state.....you could be on your way to prison. Besides....the purchase of any firearm in the US...from a licensed gun dealer requires a federal background check...and as you would more than likely not be in the US data base, not having a "Social Security" account number...the likelihood of being permitted to purchase the weapon is nil.

All I am going to say is: Don't obsess about it. Besides....if I am on the water....and get that worried...hailing the US Coast Guard or other Law Enforcement while loading my flare gun....should take care of it.

 

[JAT]

I had the opportunity yesterday to have a short discussion with a US cruiser about guns. He is a retired Viet Nam vet.

He and I have much in common as I am a Vietnam Veteran and retired as well.

My war vet friend says we should assume that when we are in an anchorage or marina, restaurant, bar or shopping mall that everyone is armed.
He also said he sleeps every night with a loaded gun beside him and admitted that he has only fired it in training and practice.

I differ in opinion with him. I never assume that others around me are armed. Mainly because in our case, with living in Florida...there are less than 1 milllion concealed carry permits issued. Our state population...permanent population is 20 million +/-, and more during the winter months. Carrying a firearm off of your own property....if concealed is a crime. I know where my guns are....but I don't have one under my pillow. But I will say....most Vietnam Veterans own guns, and most know where they are all the time....just seems to be that way

 

[JAT]

Some figures.
Last year in the states there were 11,000 homicides and 19,000 suicides with guns. If that's not a crazy society........

We have 314,000,000 citizens...and who knows really how many illegals? And if the gun deaths aren't enough...we manage to kill off another 42,000 people every year on our highways....and over 50% of those deaths are alcohol related.....

I worry far more about stupid/crazy drivers...than a crazy person with a gun.

 

[JAT]

As a visitor (armed, legally or not) what would be the etiquette with a gun? Is it the same as the UK?
Would it be advisable to carry it, broken over the forearm, so people could see they were safe from accidental discharge, or would that defeat the object?
In a marina situation how would you assess the backstop? A few plastic yachts aren't going to stop a determined bullet.

I think it's a logistical nightmare.

Frankly....I suspect that if you were to walk around a marina or out in public...meaning not on a firing range.....someone might call the little men in white coats who carry butterfly nets....and they might carry you away.

The only people who actually carry a firearm in the open here are Law Enforcement types....

 

[ukmctc]

Its all relative, You need to be registered in the UK for the firearm, then when you get to the US you need to hand it into the authorities until you leave, so any other firearm on board would be illegal and not registered.
Or just blend in, and party, remember your maw, sis and wife are the same person.....

 

[Marsupial]

The latest figures for gun crime in the USA are 2011 reproduced in the link below.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

the UK stats are here

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=...56,d.Yms&fp=161324eabb24e841&biw=1024&bih=677

when you pick through it we have 388 offences comparable with the american experience

they really do have a way to go. In 1985 my then neighbours husband was shot dead mugged in broad daylight shopping in New York, they had been married a week. No one was caught no motive other than theft was offered he died instantly, would a gun have saved him - not on that occasion, not much has changed, so the message despite what those living there say is don't go there, the colony is still full of arms and people willing to use them.

 

[JAT]

"remember your maw, sis and wife are the same person....." Pray tell...was that an attempt at humor...or rudeness?

Marsupial.... While things used to be very rough in NYC....things have changed quite a bit....but then again... things happen....and I really see little or no reason to go to NYC....

Your population is approximately 56 million between England and Wales.... our is 320 million.... so based on mathematical equivalences.... your homicide rates are 6 times higher than it looks to be....based on incidents per 100,000.

I cannot help but think that somehow your news media has portrayed the US (aka the "colonies") as being an open battlefield with tracers flying everywhere, people tripping on the loose brass...and bodies falling every where....while the exact opposite is true. Gun deaths have been falling...in fact...in my home state of Florida, since they started issuing the CCW's....crime has dropped significantly. In fact the source you gave regarding US crime...shows that.

I think, had the culture of the US been different to begin with...things would have been very different. One has but to examine the history of the US....and its very evident that firearms played a significant role in our history. Jousting and sword fighting just never caught on.....

I think that you are taking excessive license when you say: "not much has changed, so the message despite what those living there say is don't go there, the colony is still full of arms and people willing to use them. " And the statement at its core is "disingenuous" at best. Your statement flies in the face of the truth.

I really did not come back to this site to engage in this type of conversation...but I thought I would respond to this poster's question as I am one who could answer the question.... I did, and I am done.

 

[JayBee]

On a recent visit to Portland, Oregon we were very impressed with the courtesy and friendly manner of the security staff at PDX. These people work for the TSA – Transportation Security Administration. Their blog is a revelation.

http://blog.tsa.gov/

The number of weapons of all sorts found weekly in carry on and checked baggage provides some insight into the love affair many US citizens have with their firearms. It is also interesting to read the blog comments from members of the public, many of whom see the TSA as the work of the devil.

However, we never feel threatened in the USA, just impressed by the open-faced friendliness of most Americans we meet. As others have pointed out, there are no-go areas in large cities everywhere, including those closer to home.

With about 360 million unregistered firearms in circulation in the USA, it is too late to do anything much about gun control.

I have owned several shotguns. The last one, a Smith and Wesson pump action 12 bore was bought legally in the UK by mail order in the 1980s. It was used for rough shooting on a remote Scottish Island. Years later, I took it to the local police station and handed it in, because I was unable to sell it and the legal ownership of such a weapon had become a bureaucratic nightmare and more trouble than it was worth.

We live in a nanny state, which most of my fellow citizens seem comfortable to inhabit. Somewhere between the two extremes is where I’d like to be.

 

[AndrewB]

On a recent visit to Portland, Oregon we were very impressed with the courtesy and friendly manner of the security staff at PDX. ... we never feel threatened in the USA, just impressed by the open-faced friendliness of most Americans we meet.

I too have been very impressed by the courtesy of strangers in the USA. When I mentioned this to a friend, he pointed out, "When the other guy might be packing a gun, it doesn't pay to be rude!"

 

[JayBee]

I too have been very impressed by the courtesy of strangers in the USA. When I mentioned this to a friend, he pointed out, "When the other guy might be packing a gun, it doesn't pay to be rude!"

Probably an element of truth in that.

When I was telling my Oregonian Bro-in-Law about a road rage incident in London, resulting in a colleague of mine having his car bonnet attacked with a wheel wrench, he said simply "If the guy had done that here, he would have been shot".

I believed him.

 

[LuigiWriter]

Being a native Californian, I would say you picked the right coast. there are roughly __ cultures in this place and I have experienced at least these. North East: One friend had lived in a subdivision outside Boston for ten years. However the ones who bought houses in the subdivision when it was new, twelve years before, still considered my friend and her family, "The newcomers." and rarely invited to gatherings. However, It is also true that the neighbor who has not said one word in thirty years upon seeing you trying to repair your wind damaged roof, will be there with his own ladder and tools, on the roof right beside you helping out. Then there is the South where "Y'all Come Again" varies in meaning from what it says, to "I even sniff your scent on the wind, I'll set the dogs baying after your sorry behind" both delivered with the same dancing eyes and sparkling smile. As one of my mentors described the differences. In the south, You are invited in, you are to stay in the parlor and be entertained. Out west where things have mingled the most, if you are standing on a street corner looking at a map, some one will usually offer to help you find your way. If he or she knows someone where you are headed, they will most likely share their friend's name and phone number. If you call, they will invite you over and when not showing you the sights they only see when showing others, they will invite you in, saying, "make your self comfortable, there is the kitchen, if you are thirsty or hungry take a look in the fridge."

My great regret is that we Americans do not realize the barriers we put up for a lot of the world who want to see the wonders of this country and meet us as people. In Canada, every shopkeeper knew the current value of several currencies in Canadian Dollars. Multi-language signage and at least an attempt to know some English was present in my ports of call overseas. Yet here in Cincinnati, there is no attempt to welcome or even invite Europeans, Asians and others to come see our cultures, architecture and natural wonders that for them is just as novel as their countries, cultures and architectures are to us.

An observer remarked that the Europeans are a pretty much "Eat your peas." sort of Culture, where as we are a "we want what we want and we want it now" culture in explaining why we are spending so much money encouraging energy wasteful individual transportation, urban sprawl and short hop air traffic, instead of high speed rail interconnected with a variety of mass transit options.

As for weapons. I believe as did the people who wrote that problematic amendment that every person is entitled to a ball and wad hunting rifle or pistol. I would feel much safer knowing that if someone did decide to shoot at me, the chance of him getting it loaded before I was two blocks away would be low. Plus if I ran down hill, the likelihood of his getting the wick set, then raising the rifle or gun only to hear the ball rolling down and out of the barrel would be very high. By then he would be so frustrated by his second amendment firearm, he would forget why he was mad at me in the first place.

Yes, a bit more nannies over here in trade for you getting a bit more of what you wanted when you wanted it, even if you didn't need it sounds amenable to me just as long as no one warms mother earth up so much that she retaliates with a great methane death cloud or a mad but just desire to freeze us out. One way all our current docks are under 2 to 6 meters of water or the other way about thirty kilometers from the nearest water.

She may not talk much, but we do need to remember that mother earth is bigger than we are, and has final say over where we can safely drop anchor