pvb
Well-Known Member
For the record, if anyone's interested, the last time skipper_stu made repeated personal attacks on me the thread was deleted by the mods and he was given a stern warning. I'm surprised he's being unpleasant again.
Gummed up injectors VP 2003
- Thread starter lampshuk
- Start date
For the record, if anyone's interested, the last time skipper_stu made repeated personal attacks on me the thread was deleted by the mods and he was given a stern warning. I'm surprised he's being unpleasant again.
lampshuk
Well-Known Member
Just got a call back from Panda.
very helpful guys, and quick turnaround.
They have replaced the injector tip and cap nut on each inj.
No signs of persistent water ingress or other chemical issues, apparently, but the old tips were wet, which means they weren't atomising properly, and might explain the dieselly sheen in the cooling water (unburnt fuel).
They recommended a smear of copper grease over the barrels (not tip!) when re-inserting the injectors. Apparently cu grease can tolerate the high temperatures better, and will make for easier removal next time (ie hopefully another 28 years or so).
Also recommended obsessive levels of cleanliness when re-inserting them. Seems eminently sensible to me, just rather hard to deliver in a cramped engine room.
Cost was £62 per injector + VAT. I may have been able to get a better price locally (Andover) but Panda's help and advice have been excellent, and I prefer dealing with people that know the VP2003, which I suspect the local guys do not. Even if there's a lot of similarity with other engines.
Anyway: "only" have to get it all back together again, and working!
After all this, still nothing to explain why the engine cut out in the first place...
very helpful guys, and quick turnaround.
They have replaced the injector tip and cap nut on each inj.
No signs of persistent water ingress or other chemical issues, apparently, but the old tips were wet, which means they weren't atomising properly, and might explain the dieselly sheen in the cooling water (unburnt fuel).
They recommended a smear of copper grease over the barrels (not tip!) when re-inserting the injectors. Apparently cu grease can tolerate the high temperatures better, and will make for easier removal next time (ie hopefully another 28 years or so).
Also recommended obsessive levels of cleanliness when re-inserting them. Seems eminently sensible to me, just rather hard to deliver in a cramped engine room.
Cost was £62 per injector + VAT. I may have been able to get a better price locally (Andover) but Panda's help and advice have been excellent, and I prefer dealing with people that know the VP2003, which I suspect the local guys do not. Even if there's a lot of similarity with other engines.
Anyway: "only" have to get it all back together again, and working!
After all this, still nothing to explain why the engine cut out in the first place...
scottie
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that if the injectors needed new tip then they would not be working that well and that you check the oil for deisel contamination and bore wear worth doing a compression check whilst you have the injectors out
Simply if the the nozzles which act as a spring loaded non valve is not holding ie dribbling wet etc it allows fuel into the bore and cleans the oil from rings etc reducing compression
This is not always the case but more often than not
Simply if the the nozzles which act as a spring loaded non valve is not holding ie dribbling wet etc it allows fuel into the bore and cleans the oil from rings etc reducing compression
This is not always the case but more often than not
lampshuk
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that's good advice, but I don't have a compression tester.
What does diesel in the oil look like? At the moment everything to do with the engine smells of diesel.
I will be changing the oil quite soon, so will be able to look at the contents of the sump.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
PM sent
S
scottie
Well-Known Member
Draw some off and smell it
It also feels thinner
It also feels thinner
Slowtack
Well-Known Member
Been lurking here (VP2003 owner). Invaluable advice - many thanks to the contributors.
2Tizwoz
Well-Known Member
If you feel the oil between your fingers it will feel less slippery if there's diesel in it.
Carbonised oil or dried up grease can cause the injectors to become stuck in the head, and make their removal difficult.
Scrupulous cleanliness has always been my method.
A bottle brush, a good quality rag, that isn't going to fray, on a screwdriver and try to leave that dark hole sparkling.
lampshuk
Well-Known Member
Just an update on this whole sorry saga:
As has been suggested, the engine stopped not because of glued up injectors, but water in the diesel.
Lots of water.
I drained about 2.5 litres of what looked like cloudy diesel out of the fuel pipe, after which it turned nice and pink.
When it settled out, there was about 1.5 l of water and the rest was diesel.
Since I kept the tank fairly well topped-up I was surprised that so much had got in.
After some head-scratching, I checked the flush-fitting diesel filler cap on the side deck (which does not drain properly, so the filler is often immersed in water).
Of course: the washer had split and left a gap of about 1cm.
So it looks like that was the culprit.
failure to perform a 10-second check, and replace a £3 washer (Force 4 price when you walk in the door muttering to yourself and looking desperate) has led to extensive (unnecessary) injector work and a follow-on project to remove and repaint the diesel tank, which actually looks in good condition apart from a rusty ring around the water/diesel interface. When I fully drained the tank there must have been about a gallon of water in there, to bring the level up high enough to get into the inlet.
I guess I should be grateful that I didn't bu**er up the injector sleeves.
On that subject: I can confirm that the little banjoes that attach the fuel return line to the Injectors are extremely easy to snap, being hollow. I just want to give 2 thumbs up to MB Fuels of Eastleigh (handy for the M3 to/from So'ton), who supplied me with a couple of replacements late on a Saturday afternoon when all the Volvo marine engine dealers had gone home for Christmas. The ones they gave me are solid, flat-sided, so the fuel still flows around and into the banjo, but they are much stronger.
Why didn't I spot the water in the fuel/water separater? Well, if it's all water in the first place, there's no fuel/water interface to see.
So: moral of this story?
Check yer flush-fitting filler washers!
As has been suggested, the engine stopped not because of glued up injectors, but water in the diesel.
Lots of water.
I drained about 2.5 litres of what looked like cloudy diesel out of the fuel pipe, after which it turned nice and pink.
When it settled out, there was about 1.5 l of water and the rest was diesel.
Since I kept the tank fairly well topped-up I was surprised that so much had got in.
After some head-scratching, I checked the flush-fitting diesel filler cap on the side deck (which does not drain properly, so the filler is often immersed in water).
Of course: the washer had split and left a gap of about 1cm.
So it looks like that was the culprit.
failure to perform a 10-second check, and replace a £3 washer (Force 4 price when you walk in the door muttering to yourself and looking desperate) has led to extensive (unnecessary) injector work and a follow-on project to remove and repaint the diesel tank, which actually looks in good condition apart from a rusty ring around the water/diesel interface. When I fully drained the tank there must have been about a gallon of water in there, to bring the level up high enough to get into the inlet.
I guess I should be grateful that I didn't bu**er up the injector sleeves.
On that subject: I can confirm that the little banjoes that attach the fuel return line to the Injectors are extremely easy to snap, being hollow. I just want to give 2 thumbs up to MB Fuels of Eastleigh (handy for the M3 to/from So'ton), who supplied me with a couple of replacements late on a Saturday afternoon when all the Volvo marine engine dealers had gone home for Christmas. The ones they gave me are solid, flat-sided, so the fuel still flows around and into the banjo, but they are much stronger.
Why didn't I spot the water in the fuel/water separater? Well, if it's all water in the first place, there's no fuel/water interface to see.
So: moral of this story?
Check yer flush-fitting filler washers!
pvb
Well-Known Member
Glad you solved the problem! And thanks for posting the result; so many people never bother.
Slowtack
Well-Known Member
Yes - learned a lot from this thread, thanks
lampshuk
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comments. I have learned so much from expert postings on here that I am happy to share my own fumblings if it attracts useful info. Thanks also to Skipper Stu who gave me plenty of advice offline.
One final comment (not directly about injectors, but fuel/tank related):
I had an Eberspacher heater (now defunct) that was tee'd off the sight-tube. Apparently this is bad safety practice because it means you have to leave the sight glass stop tap on whenever the heater is operating, and this could lead to problems if there's a fire/overheat problem and the sight tube melts, releasing a tankfull of diesel to join the fun.
More prosaically, the sight-glass (on Moody 31) is taken from the drain tap at the lowest point in the tank, so that means your heater is getting all the crud straight from the bottom of the tank. No wonder the poor thing packed in.
I have now replaced mine with a proper riser all of its own and am in the process of adding a brand new heater.
One final comment (not directly about injectors, but fuel/tank related):
I had an Eberspacher heater (now defunct) that was tee'd off the sight-tube. Apparently this is bad safety practice because it means you have to leave the sight glass stop tap on whenever the heater is operating, and this could lead to problems if there's a fire/overheat problem and the sight tube melts, releasing a tankfull of diesel to join the fun.
More prosaically, the sight-glass (on Moody 31) is taken from the drain tap at the lowest point in the tank, so that means your heater is getting all the crud straight from the bottom of the tank. No wonder the poor thing packed in.
I have now replaced mine with a proper riser all of its own and am in the process of adding a brand new heater.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Always worth making the heater dip tube somewhat shorter than the engine dip tube - that way, you don't run the risk of the heater drinking all the diesel!