GT35 versus Rustler37

Scotty_Tradewind said:
Externally the Rustler leaves me cold. Not the best of sheer lines and a back end like a 1950's bread van ...
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I've just read Snook's review in YM, and I agree about the stern. From the front she looks quite nice, but the stern is just too damn wide. Actually in some shots I think the GT35 has a very sweet hull, again particularly from the front, but it's wrecked for me by the high-volume coachroof and the utter blandness of all that white plastic.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I've just read Snook's review in YM, and I agree about the stern. From the front she looks quite nice, but the stern is just too damn wide. Actually in some shots I think the GT35 has a very sweet hull, again particularly from the front, but it's wrecked for me by the high-volume coachroof and the utter blandness of all that white plastic.
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I guess that's the fashion these days. Make something with a slim stern like the Rustler 36 and everyone complains it doesnt have a vast aft cabin. It's very difficult to have the headroom, bed-width room and sleek look below 45 feet or so.
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
I guess that's the fashion these days. Make something with a slim stern like the Rustler 36 and everyone complains it doesnt have a vast aft cabin. It's very difficult to have the headroom, bed-width room and sleek look below 45 feet or so.
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The space down below in the GT 35 is amazing. SJ has done an extraordinary job. Probably significantly more room than a Starlight 39, and I mean 39 not 35, certainly felt like it. Be interested to hear from SJ on that.
 
The Rustler may not be everyone's cup of tea, but will no doubt be well received by those who crave the high-quality retro look.

Trouble is I've no idea who the GT35 is aimed at. It's budget rig and cheap sails (similar to the ultra-budget cloth which adorns mass production boats show specials) will be a major turnoff to performance seekers, and it's "deluxe site hut" styling will surely jar the eyes of modernists every bit as much as Rustler's prospective clients.

I wish GT well, but think they would be better to admit that the GT35 was a mistake and focus on producing something better next time.
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
The beauty of a custom built boat like the Rustler is that you go on one, decide what you like, what you want changed and then the craftsmen in the factory make it for you. The way you want. When I had my Rustler built I actually gave then a sketch with the shape I wanted for those posts. They were fabulous and very, very practical at sea. I like to have something seriously sturdy to hold onto as I descending the steps, and that post can take all of my weight, as can every single handhold place on the boat. I think the photo makes the post look bigger than it is. The diameter is just right for adult hands.

Its a good job that we all don't like the same looking boats. We would have nothing to criticise when sitting in harbour.

Fortunately for Rustler there seem to be a few of us out there that like the look of the 37. First boat launched this spring and I think they have sold three of four more already.
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I think we are fairly agreed (albeit the post may need personalising for me). If I was in the fortunate position to be able to buy a yacht of this class and type, out of all the boats made today around the 36-42 feet, I would always consider looking at Rustler or perhaps Halberg Rassey as my starting point.

It would be naïve to think that that is where I would stop looking. Many have purchased other makes of yacht close to their price range, but are they in the same 'cruiser' class for build quality and seaworthiness?

Thanks to the expertise of the likes of Snooks, we are able to see the interiors of some of these new boats at a glance on our screens, as well as exterior photos, and also read, a hopefully unbiased write-up in our magazines. :)

It would also be interesting to see a depreciation table over a ten year period for boats of this size and see what the ratio is between price new and value now. Not always an easy table to set up but how do yacht brokers do it other than experience and a 'feel' for the market?

S.
 
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Scotty_Tradewind said:
Thanks to the expertise of the likes of Snooks, we are able to see the interiors of some of these new boats at a glance on our screens, as well as exterior photos, and also read, a hopefully unbiased write-up in our magazines. :)
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I believe my reports are honest appraisals of the boats I test and I try not to be biased one way or another. Some boats I like the looks of but other people don't, not many boats look great from all angles. There are some boats like the Exploration 45 which look purposeful, others like the Rustler 33 look beautiful. But only when you see a boat in the flesh do you fall for her or not. Every boat is a compromise, whether she makes a good cruiser it what's important to the readership of YM.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
I think we are fairly agreed (albeit the post may need personalising for me). If I was in the fortunate position to be able to buy a yacht of this class and type, out of all the boats made today around the 36-42 feet, I would always consider looking at Rustler or perhaps Halberg Rassey as my starting point.

It would be naïve to think that that is where I would stop looking. Many have purchased other makes of yacht close to their price range, but are they in the same 'cruiser' class for build quality and seaworthiness?

Thanks to the expertise of the likes of Snooks, we are able to see the interiors of some of these new boats at a glance on our screens, as well as exterior photos, and also read, a hopefully unbiased write-up in our magazines. :)

It would also be interesting to see a depreciation table over a ten year period for boats of this size and see what the ratio is between price new and value now. Not always an easy table to set up but how do yacht brokers do it other than experience and a 'feel' for the market?

S.
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Absolutely. You have hit it right on the head! IMHO THE most important point of the financial aspect of buying a new boat.

I cannot answer for the brokers, but when I bought my first Rustler the prospective depteciation of the intial capital value was my most important issue. After all, if I didnt like sailing or my other half didnt then I wanted to be able to get out of the situation with minimal loss.

A properly built boat will definitely depreciate less because it will not show wear and tear in the same way.

As a member of the Rustler owners association I did for several years run a database of every single boat in the fleet, and tracked original purchase cost, major modifications and sale prices. Not perfect science or data, but as close as we could get it. I was pleasantly surprised to see how they retained their value. For the 36 it seemed that they went immediately down by the amount of the VAT after the first year and then depreciation was in the low single digits. If you kept one long enough then inflstion could overtake the depreciation and therefore the sale price came close to original cost in pure pound terms.

I have owned two Rustlers, and without being specific I can say that having sold both of them, I am only in total a few percent down, cash wise, after a dozen years of ownership.
 
dom said:
Trouble is I've no idea who the GT35 is aimed at. It's budget rig and cheap sails (similar to the ultra-budget cloth which adorns mass production boats show specials) will be a major turnoff to performance seekers, and it's "deluxe site hut" styling will surely jar the eyes of modernists every bit as much as Rustler's prospective clients.
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There are always calls for boatbuilders to start building more classic looking boats - slender, long overhangs, that sort of thing - and there are very good reasons why they don't, all of which summarise as "the market doesn't want 'em". Which is fine. GT seem to have made the bold decision to offer an extremely well made and carefully detailed 1990s boat. If the market won't support 60s retro, it's hard to see it supporting 90s retro.
 
I I don't like rustlers -not for me but when my friend bought his 36 Rustler I bought a Dufour36. I did later upgrade to a 38 then a Jeanneau43.

My friend sold his boat at a notional profit (inevitably there were ongoing maintenance investments -eg new sails). My boats have all suffered depreciation - approx 15% over the 3yrs I had them but they were on the charter market.

IMHO the rustler and GT35 is a very limited market but they hold their price well. While I can understand people choosing to buy an Aston Martin instead of a production car I am surprised at the number (albeit small) that are prepared to pay a premium for a Rustler with its long keel.
 
JumbleDuck said:
GT seem to have made the bold decision to offer an extremely well made and carefully detailed 1990s boat. If the market won't support 60s retro, it's hard to see it supporting 90s retro
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Agree with your conclusion, but aside from GT's sales pitch see little hard evidence of the "carefully detailed" bit - sails are low grade, the 20HP Beta engine seems somewhat heavy and under-powered for a high-end offering, toilets basic Jabsco, etc, etc. Returning to the rig; a performance cruiser should get close to hull speed close-hauled in 12-14kts TWS. Yet GT proudly quote PBO's David Harding's euphemism for a puny little budget rig?

"Beating into 32-33 knots of wind across the deck in open water under full sail is a reasonably stiff test of any boat. The GT didn't bat an eyelid... For those who think in Beaufort, this was the top end of Force 6".

But this thread has run and run, so is it not time for a head-to-head to put the matter to bed once and for all? How about a forumite vs ybw challenge: ybw/GT staff to sail the GT35 and forumites whichever "poorly built unseaworthy piece of mass production 35' performance junk" (I'm thinking First, Sunfast, Elan, etc) GT would like to nominate? Weather conditions also at GT's discretion - a bit like the America's Cup". Should the forumites lose, each crew member will have to write a grovelling apology to GT in addition to donating say £200 to a charity of GT's choice.
 
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dom said:
Agree with your conclusion, but aside from GT's sales pitch see little hard evidence of the "carefully detailed" bit - sails are low grade, the 20HP Beta engine seems somewhat heavy and under-powered for a high-end offering, toilets basic Jabsco, etc, etc.
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I was thinking of the workmanship, which all reviewers seem to agree is to a very high standard. The fittings do seem surprisingly cheap and cheerful. Perhaps that's because they cost actual cash but craftsman time may have been available?

Returning to the rig; a performance cruiser should get close to hull speed close-hauled in 12-14kts TWS. Yet GT proudly quote PBO's David Harding's euphemism for a puny little budget rig? "Beating into 32-33 knots of wind across the deck in open water under full sail is a reasonably stiff test of any boat. The GT didn't bat an eyelid... For those who think in Beaufort, this was the top end of Force 6".
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That is a little surprising. In a recent posting - I think in the "David Thomas RIP" thread - someone said that Sigma 38 racers would keep full sail on in very windy conditions, which leads me to wonder whether the boats in question could have used more sail in light conditions. My boat has nice big sails which need reefed for anything above F3, but she's a long-keeler ... perhaps it's different for modern lightweights.

But this thread has run and run, so is it not time for a head-to-head to put the matter to bed once and for all? So how about a forumite vs ybw challenge: ybw/GT staff to sail the GT35 and forumites whichever "poorly built unseaworthy piece of mass production 35' performance junk" (I'm thinking First, Sunfast, Elan, etc) GT would like to nominate. Weather conditions also at GT's discretion - a bit like the America's Cup". Should the forumites lose, each crew member will have to write a grovelling apology to GT in addition to donating say £200 to a charity of GT's choice.
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I don't think the GT35 is presented as a racer, so that would be an unfair test. I'm not quite sure what she's presented as, mind, but if we knew perhaps we could think of a better test.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I was thinking of the workmanship, which all reviewers seem to agree is to a very high standard.

...I'm not quite sure what she's presented as, mind, but if we knew perhaps we could think of a better test.
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Ah I see where you are coming from, those who enthusiastically cheered John Cage's famous no-note 1952 piano composition (5:23 in clip below) are now cheering the GT35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2zcLBr_VM

How about we buy a GT35 together, saw it in half, suspend each half in formaldehyde, and call our display “Cutting Edge”? We could be millionaires JD!
 
dom said:
Ah I see where you are coming from, those who enthusiastically cheered John Cage's famous no-note 1952 piano composition (5:23 in clip below) are now cheering the GT35
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I think I prefer a metaphor involving an emperor and a very expensive new suit. If it costs a fortune it must be good ...

How about we buy a GT35 together, saw it in half, suspend each half in formaldehyde, and call our display “Cutting Edge”? We could be millionaires JD!
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Hmm. A GT17.5 each, eh? Did you ever see the film "Malcolm"?
 
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