Grumpy old fart.

J

Joe_Cole

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There I was, quietly reading down below, waiting for SWMBO to return from a shopping expedition, when "Bang, Thump". I go up on deck to find a teenager on my side deck holding a short length of rope which is attached to his bow. Alongside is a boat with three people on board (two of them clearly pretending not to be there!). Upstream from me the skipper on the next boat is peering over his pulpit, examining his gel coat (the "bang" was the new arrivals bow bashing into him)

Very quickly it becomes apparent that the new arrival has no idea what he is doing. The teenager is pulling on the rope but also has no idea what is happening. I ask new arrival for his stern rope so that I can put it on my cleat. After some confusion a short length of rope is handed up to me which I cleat off. I then cleat off his bow line.

The boat is at least secure for the moment.

As far as I can see New Arrival has chosen to come alongside me because I had fenders out and he seemed to think that they were there as some kind of crash landing system.

It's obvious that New Arrival isn't going to do anymore and is expecting yours truly to sort him out. I suggest to him that in future he would find it easier if he came in against the tide, to which he says "Oh yes, was I going the wrong way?". I mention springs to him and he looks blankly at me. I mention shore lines to him and he looks even more blank, so I ask if he has anymore rope on board. No.

"How long are you staying?" I ask. "Overnight" says he.

At this I freely admit I went into grumpy old fart mode. "Not here you're not. I'm not having you hanging of my cleats all night like that "

I always welcome fellow boaters alongside. I always try to help. We all have to start somewhere. This is the first time I have ever turned anyone away.

This really looked like a case of someone going out, buying a boat, and doing nothing to learn the basics before he went on the water.

Was I right to turn him away?
 
Well I suppose, given the cap fitting and all that, I ought to agree with you. I've been as grumpy to others who have shown no courtesy or knowledge of what they are about. On reflection, I guess I should be more tolerant but sometimes silly people arrive at just the wrong time and the red mist descends....
 
is it .... right - or - is it that .... would I do the same

depends on the circumstances I guess - but if I was tired after a long day I would probably ask them to move off and feel guilty afterwards.
youth has so much more staying power than me - no .... I lie, youth can lie in their bunks all morning whereas I want to be up and away at he crack of dawn.
so yes I would probably ask them to move away unless I thought 30 mins tuition and an early start was still possible after a decent night sleep.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
IMHO, yes, after ensuring he was safe, and you'd advised him of suitable alternative strategies. Unfortunately putting out fenders is indeed a problem.

Teenagers able to own their own a boat? .. lucky them! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Vic
 
[ QUOTE ]

Teenagers able to own their own a boat? .. lucky them! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

My posting wasn't very clear. There were two teenagers, with Mum and Dad on the boat.
 
I'd have done the same...

I know its a regular debate... but I do think that compulsory certification is inevitable... and at least it'll stop this kind of thing... these are the people that will be later reported in the local rag as having been pulled off a sandbank somewhere after calling for help on their mobile....
 
[ QUOTE ]
but I do think that compulsory certification is inevitable...

[/ QUOTE ]

are you mad, I hear the old farts chime. I happen to agree with you. Just as driving licences arrived for the car after a few nasty incidents, so will they for boats for the same kind of reasons.
 
We had a similar thing a couple of years back in Lymington. We were moored fore/aft between two of the visitors buoys and despite most of the other buoys being free a boat arrives alongside. There were 6 people on board, yet they hadn't yet put out fenders, they had a bow line rigged but no stern line even out of the locker and they arrived downwind (no tide to speak of) whilst we were sitting eating dinner at the cockpit table. They had 3 attempts to get close enough to throw (not pass) the bow line and then they expected ME to pull them in on it. At least by try #3 the fenders had been rigged, they then threw SWMBO the stern line and expected HER to pull in that end.

I think I might have been less than polite because I heard comments like 'well we have to learn somehow' and 'didn't you have to learn once?' etc. I suggested they might like to try 'practicising' picking up the vacant fore/aft buoys as there was no need to raft up and it would be useful to them, plus mentioned my dinner was getting cold which seemed to cause them to take offence. They said 'we aren't staying here next to YOU, we are leaving!' 'Oh Good' I said, 'why not try Yarmouth, there might be some helpful people there?'

Yes I felt guilty afterwards, I usually welcome people alongside and as it is often inevitable prefer to get it over with and accept it gracefully but late season in an empty visitor area and us obviously in the middle of dinner I thought they were pushing their luck, just a bit. So grumpy old fart it is then.
 
Would a half an hour or hour tution by you have helped them? If so you should have given that to them. Rather than chase them away. If it wouldn't then chase them! IMHO
But I know exactly what you mean, as I said about the folk who tried to tie up alongside me, when there was an empty quay, although they were experienced.
 
Difficult one ...

There are times you just want to cast their lines and say "F........ ....... f !", but most of us swallow the words and do the gentlemanly thing ...and help even when we get no thanks !!

I have been known to give a few 'gentle' pointers ... and little advise where I can .... possibly in this instance I might have stepped on THEIR boat and sat down with a beer ....

I bet THEY would have started to ask questions ... sounding out how to do things without sounding 'prats' which in truth they are ... Good - go with it ... educate without insulting ....

We all did start somewhere - many of us falling in the deep end .... many of use never seeing the inside of a RYA class-room or School boat ....

As to Certification .... YES it will come and I for one am not convinced of its ability to sort this out ..... I have for long time advocated the linking of training courses to new boats - similarly to Motorcycles - but s/hand boats like M/C's cannot be so governed.
I live in an area where Compulsory Certifcates and also Boat Inspection are Annual .... we still have some [--word removed--] boats and some god awful owners / skippers ....

No - there has to be answer - but Ticket is not it on its own ....

I for one have no Yacht ticket - other than the Day-Boat one got at College 30 yr ago. Maybe the Lifeboatmans will do ??? examined on a Ships Sailing Lifeboat as well !!!

I sympathise with pushing them off .... but feel that only passes the buck to another poor unfortunate boat to have them 'bang alongside' ....... Still think a beer and chat - with possibly a demo sail for 30 mins ????

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
We had one come into a very crowded harbour in the Baltic (no tide, of course). No fenders, no mooring lines - they were Belgians, but that's no excuse. They approached us, on the outside of a raft of five, so I grabbed a couple of fenders and put them out. The woman was on the foredeck, so I reached out to her to take the bow-line. She shook my hand and said "how do you do". While I grabbed their stanchions to fend them off, the husband opened a locker in a leisurely fashion, and took out a couple of lines, which we secured for him, with springs. They clearly didn't know about shorelines. They also walked across our cockpit, which irritated me, and were very shirty when we woke them up next morning (at about 7.30) so that we could leave. They were last seen trying to raft up to the Danish boat we had just left, with a lot of help from the Danes.

I thought that the Danes and Germans had more compulsory qualifications than us, but I don't know about the Belgians. We did wonder how they managed to get that far with that level of unpreparedness!
 
Hi Colin

Well they started off by getting some free tuition, despite us being in the middle of eating dinner. I explained to the man at the wheel if he were to go ahead gently about 3 yds, that way I wouldn't have to pull in 7 or 8 tons of boat by hand but he declined. Then I tied the line off on our bow and suggested his crew pull them in from their end but they were too busy telling SWMBO to pull in the stern line they had thrown to her (the stern was drifting away sideways on the wind). They had 6 on board, all under say 30 years old and we are just 2 on board and nearly double that age, plus as I said we were eating and most of the buoys were free to pick up anyway, no need for anyone to be rafted up that night.

I didn't chase them away either because they did eventually get tied up but they said I was unhelpful because everyone needs to learn how to do it. I agreed and suggested they practice picking up the buoys which were empty and let us eat our now cold dinner! I think it was embarassment mainly that made them leave but their skipper was using a lot of F words although his crew of 2 men and 2 ladies sat there very sheepishly, one apologised and said they were new to boats which by then I had worked out.

As I said I did feel guilty afterwards but I wasn't rude or even make a smart remark until they pronounced us as unfriendly and decided to 'f-g go somewhere f-g else' when I did suggest Yarmouth Harbour as an alternative destination!

Robin
 
Like others here I learned on my boat before I ever got near a classroom, but I like to think that I wasn't rude to people trying to help me, didn't cause too much damage along the way and learned what I could from books first. Putting out the fenders and to tying up alongside is one of the few things that can be learned effectively from a book.
 
Well you did try!! If they wont listen, then you did the right thing and never any need to resort to that language!
 
It's a tricky balance. We all did start somewhere, however surely the demarcation point between those you should help and coach and those who should be sent to Yarmouth is their attitude. If they arrive with 'I'm terribly sorry for being such a numpty, could you possibly be kind enough to assist us as we feel we may not be as prepared as we perhaps might' is somehwat different to chucking the warps over.

When I was learning (still am, but you know what I mean) our skipper bought us along side with lines prepared but with all hands on fenders, and explained to the chap in the vessel to which we hoped to raft up, who we were, what were doing and how we intended to do it. Thus the chap, seeing that we were a bunch of keen novices, not some new money yobs, was more than happy to help.

When we had the other vessel's agreement, we went round again and came back fully briefed on what we were doing and where we were going.
 
Some years ago whilst using my Parents boat I encountered the opposite - as a teenager I couldn't possibly know what I was doing!
In Yarmouth, I was tying up to another boat moored between piles and was rigging my normal breast ropes and springs before pumping the dinghy up to rig shore lines. The elderly skipper insisted that this was incorrect and proceeded to release all of the lines between our boats leaving me hanging just by the pile lines. When I pointed out that with the (spring) tides that would pour out of Yarmouth that weekend, mooring properly to each other is the right way to do it (and "can you re-tie my lines, please"), I was subjected to a tirade about inexperienced youngsters taking over the Solent, causing mayhem, drinking wildly ....blah, blah, blah.
Yes, I was a teenager and so was my crew. Whilst the others were inexperienced, I had been sailing for 10 years and had experience of being "Skipper" for a couple of them. We had come alongside properly, we had not had a drink - no loud music - what was his problem?
Needless to say the red mist descended and we moved to another boat parting with a "frank and firm exchange of views" - to quote a politician I once heard on TV.
I now make sure that SWMBO does tie off a line thrown to her rather than busting a gut to pull in a boat full (usually charter boats) as we have experienced the Solent phenomena of charter boat coming near alongside (i.e. within 10 feet), ropes thrown and then standing back while I and SWMBO kill ourselves pulling them in. Not any more!
 
I know what you mean about those charter boats in the Solent, but there is something funny about their warps isn't there? They seem somehow all too slippery to catch...
 
Sorry, Nas but I don't believe certification will answer the problem because pillocks without a bit of paper just become pillocks with a bit of paper and I object to the very roots of my soul to the endless encroachiment on my liberties. Just because you sail in a busy area and encounter problems should not lead to me having to have another bit of bloody paper so I can sail in an area where I might see a few boats only in a week.
 
Pillock with paper

Is an even worse pillock - cause now he has evidence that he can use to argue with .... as a paperless pillock - you can stick it to him !!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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