Greta, Trump and similar topics

Simon__ said:
It’s difficult. Climate Change is an important topic but it’s pretty much just a political buzz word to feign social responsibility at the moment. With the ‘need’ for constant growth, consumption is a given and climate change doesn’t really stand a chance.

The problem with this voyage is it’s all PR. LV are trying to grow their brand, maybe they believe in the cause too but this is mainly about increasing their revenue. Greta is similarly trying to bring focus onto CC but her ‘no fly’ policy appears illogical when you consider the support staff which need to fly to keep this going (and often lead to more emissions than if Greta had just flown herself). Going further, we’re told we need to change our lifestyles; eat less meat, reduce foreign travel but we’re being told this by a 17 year old who constantly travels and will have visited more countries in a few months than most will in their entire lives. Irrespective of her agenda, which may be completely wholesome, it raises challenges. Why should I reduce my standard of living if the activists refuse to make the least damaging transport choices (If you don’t fly but a crew needs to fly for you to sail, this defeats the purpose). Why aren’t activists using technology to reduce travel, I expect they would advocate using Skype etc. for meetings for everyone else but seems unable / unwilling to do this themselves.

Yes, these people are ‘doing something’ and pursuing a cause they believe in, the frustration is they don’t lead by example and expect the majority to adhere to standards they refuse to adopt themselves. So, it is difficult to discuss the voyage (the what) without getting into the politics (the why) or the logistics (the how).
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Exactly and it is my belief that the grumpy old men have got fed up with shouting at each other over there in their cesspit of vitriol and have now hijacked Scuttlebutt with what they pretend to be sailing topics but are in reality trolls to enable them to sound off on their favourite topic and get new meat to argue with! Sigh!
 
Scotsailor said:
I have written to the Editor and ask that my subscription be deleted.
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You do know you can delete your subscription yourself, yes?
As for complaining about the thread being deleted, I'm guessing you didn't actually read it all - As already pointed out, it wasn't the general topic that was the problem, but the tone and personal attacks on a young girl (that no-one on these forums had ever actually met) which was the reason

Still, if that;s enough to upset you, then just delete your account.
No need to flounce off in a huff.
 
Greemble said:
You do know you can delete your subscription yourself, yes?
As for complaining about the thread being deleted, I'm guessing you didn't actually read it all - As already pointed out, it wasn't the general topic that was the problem, but the tone and personal attacks on a young girl (that no-one on these forums had ever actually met) which was the reason

Still, if that;s enough to upset you, then just delete your account.
No need to flounce off in a huff.
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Agree 100%. There is an unacceptable amount of fork-tongue type of posts in this thread. References to the cess pit of the lounge, ad hominems of those who wish to discuss climate rationally and sensibly, rubbishing of climate change, shooting the messenger. Two threads so far have been blocked because some forumites could not keep to the rules. That is redolent of the time when climate was discussed in the general, wide-ranging Lounge. The Climate change forum currently operating has been and still is being conducted reasonably politely. No thread so far has been blocked to the best of my knowledge.
It would be interesting to see a debate on those Atlantic crossings involving Greta. What problems were there and how they were tackled. Can I suggest that a new thread be started on the strict understanding that anyone wishing to comment on climate does so in the appropriate forum. As long as you are civil, you will be welcome. It is a complex subject with many facets. It is always interesting to see rational, defensible opinions.
 
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I have asked for this thread to be ended, we shall see. Perhaps the people who have similar thoughts could do the same:


"Maybe this thread has run it's course and should be closed. The OP said he only posted it to advertise the Climate Sub Forum, so job done.

He otherwise seems to be nursing some personal hurt and has come back several times with provocative accusations.

Thanks for looking at this."
 
Beneteau381 said:
Chris, it is wrong that Scuttlebutt is being used by people with an agenda, there is a dedicated forum for this.
Stu
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Hiya Stu. I understand what you mean in some ways. However, I reckon its the job of the moderators to arrive at that decision without being asked.

The whole topic is subjective. Wherever the thread is, people are free to argue, discuss, get upset or whatever. The key thing is that they do not (R) do not have to read it or join in.

To ask for a thread to be moved simply because someone doesnt like it or agree with it is, in my opinion, rather self important and dictatorial. And anyone is free to disagree with that. Or not read it....... :)

Hope all is well up there in the frozen north!!!
 
capnsensible said:
Hiya Stu. I understand what you mean in some ways. However, I reckon its the job of the moderators to arrive at that decision without being asked.

The whole topic is subjective. Wherever the thread is, people are free to argue, discuss, get upset or whatever. The key thing is that they do not (R) do not have to read it or join in.

To ask for a thread to be moved simply because someone doesnt like it or agree with it is, in my opinion, rather self important and dictatorial. And anyone is free to disagree with that. Or not read it....... :)

Hope all is well up there in the frozen north!!!
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The Lounge is for stuff like this, “nonsensical” not “sensible” “incapable of discussing issues .... in a rational, civilised manner”
The rules are quite clear! Thats why myself and others are publicly questioning why stuff like this is allowed!
Portugal was nice last month, butbglad we are at home now, the hillside we are on is leaking water, the cottage next door, built in to the hill, is leaking water in to what was a gulley in the back alley way. Back in the 80s frogs used to live in the trickle that was always there, it dried up, along with the springs that are on the OS map but they are now re appearing with this rain. Not climate change, just going back to what it used to be! See what I did there? Silly billys converted the frog stream alley into part of the house! So glad to be here in just in case, my back alley is the same but I put up a false wall and my trickle is under control and goes along a dedicated enclosed gully.
 
Beneteau381 said:
The Lounge is for stuff like this, “nonsensical” not “sensible” “incapable of discussing issues .... in a rational, civilised manner”
The rules are quite clear! Thats why myself and others are publicly questioning why stuff like this is allowed!
Portugal was nice last month, butbglad we are at home now, the hillside we are on is leaking water, the cottage next door, built in to the hill, is leaking water in to what was a gulley in the back alley way. Back in the 80s frogs used to live in the trickle that was always there, it dried up, along with the springs that are on the OS map but they are now re appearing with this rain. Not climate change, just going back to what it used to be! See what I did there? Silly billys converted the frog stream alley into part of the house! So glad to be here in just in case, my back alley is the same but I put up a false wall and my trickle is under control and goes along a dedicated enclosed gully.
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Love this keep it up , just what Scutt:pbut is for
 
Scotsailor said:
I’n fact the purpose of the forum should be to discuss such high profile crossing
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Yes. And I *think* nobody disagreed a few post back with the notion that such a boating activity was absolutely within the scope of scuttlebutt but off-topic stuff like this:

Simon__ said:
Going further, we’re told we need to change our lifestyles; eat less meat, reduce foreign travel
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..which is irrelevant to a sailing forum and was the kind of stuff cluttering up the previous thread, belongs in the lounge.

I'm particularly interested in whether the Cornell organisation's desire to stage manage this is going to result in Riley being sidelined on his own boat.

I suggest that the answer is not the pull the thread, it's to pull off-topic posts and revoke the accounts of people who can't stay on-topic.

FWIW having watched the first two Greta-La Vagabondes there is *nothing* controversial in it and the Thunbergs could be any two random father-and-daughter scandis.
 
laika said:
..which is irrelevant to a sailing forum and was the kind of stuff cluttering up the previous thread, belongs in the lounge.
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Sorry to have to come back on matters relating to climate which, as we all seem to agree, is best left to the Climate Change sub-forum. The Climate forum is being conducted, so far at least, in a manner unlike what used to happen in the Lounge.
 
franksingleton said:
Sorry to have to come back on matters relating to climate which, as we all seem to agree, is best left to the Climate Change sub-forum.
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I don't agree. Aspects of climate change which affect cruising are perfectly on-topic for Scuttlebutt. Aspects of climate change which affect marine technology (how long can/should we go on building boats from oil-derived plastic?) are perfectly on topic for Reader to Reader.

The specialist forum can be kept for pig wrestling with those who deny the problem or simply can't agree whether blacks, Jews, gays, women or the EU are to blame.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I don't agree. Aspects of climate change which affect cruising are perfectly on-topic for Scuttlebutt. Aspects of climate change which affect marine technology (how long can/should we go on building boats from oil-derived plastic?) are perfectly on topic for Reader to Reader.
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I agree that approach. The problem with the two blocked threads is thst they were hijacked by trolls who were using Greta to disparage the facts of climate change.
The specialist forum can be kept for pig wrestling with those who deny the problem or simply can't agree whether blacks, Jews, gays, women or the EU are to blame.
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Although I would put it less emotively, I agree. The intention of my OP was to warn Scuttlebutt from getting involved with the silly end of climate discussion. Anyone who remembers Lounge climate threads, blocked several times, will know the dangers. A few of us were pigheaded enough to challenge the trolls. We seem to have been largely successful either because they got bored or banned. I do not know which.
 
franksingleton said:
I agree that approach. The problem with the two blocked threads is thst they were hijacked by trolls who were using Greta to disparage the facts of climate change.
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Golly, imagine the row if Greta installed a 1-2-Both switch switch and a CQR on her way across the pond !!

Probably raise the global temperature by another degree :oops:
 
franksingleton said:
I agree that approach. The problem with the two blocked threads is thst they were hijacked by trolls who were using Greta to disparage the facts of climate change.
.....
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Well, not quite.
The other thread was closed because the name of the girl from the snow line was used without genuflection and a number of people, who should have known better, went off on one.
My view is that these sideshows do more harm than good, the case needs a figure of real popular stature, someone of tone and restraint.

I am sure Trump is thrilled to have a peripheral figure to disregard, some of his backers would gladly shoot a climate activist on sight. Maybe Attenborough (sadly too old) as the public face would be far more difficult to isolate politically.

.
 
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