Greek taxes - update

S

Sybarite

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Dec 2002
Messages
27,783
Location
France
Visit site
The French site : STW (Sail the World) has officially complained to the EU that the application of the tax is in direct contradiction with the terms of the Montego Bay Convention 1982 and they have received an official acknowledgement of their complaint.

They further received the information that certain "clarifications" had been requested of the Greek government and so, in consequence , this apparently has the effect of suspending the application of the law and leading, STW hopes, to its suppression.
 
Montego convention = UNCLOS lll = right of innocent passage.

If Greece applied TPP (cruising tax) to vessels on innocent passage through their territorial waters, that would breach UNCLOS provisions for free passage.

10 months ago the Greek ministry of maritime affairs made clear they did not intend to charge boats on passage through their waters. Until they actually impose a tax on a boat on innocent passage, there is no case to answer.

STW laid another complaint, which related to EU directives on how to treat foreign registered "means of transport" (which includes boats) which visit another country. These directives allow that a means of transport registered in another EU country may be required to be "imported" after 180 days stay.

"Imported" implies the vessel should meet all local regulations on equipment fit and taxation. Temporary import is possible, such that the vessel need not be re-registered if the intention is to return to the country of origin.

At present, Greece allows EU registered vessels to remain in Greek waters for an indefinite period, with no conditions attached.

If the TPP is interpreted as a circulation tax, equivalent to a UK road fund licence, and if it was charged from the moment of entry into Greek waters (which is proposed) this would contravene the EU directive. This point has been made by STW.

Greece could legalise this situation by postponing gathering tax until boats had been resident for 180 days - and then requiring a year's payment. Net effect - all boats which have already been in Greece for 180 days will pay the tax; summer swallows won't.

So the question would then arise, for how many people is it worth wintering your boat in Turkey, Albania, Montenegro, Croatia, Italy, Tunisia, in order to keep your time in Greece to less than 180 days a year?
 
Last edited:
Jim I have a question please ,
Now that you only have to get your stamp once a year and no one has to report that they are leaving Greece or re-entering unless they are coming or going to an non EU country how would the Greek government know if the boat have been in Greece more than 180 days, unless off Couse you have a year contact with a marina or been on the hard , but even then you may have left Greece for some time . ( off Couse not if you been on the hard )
“ it only obligatory to obtain a departure and arrival permit when crossing borders “
End to my question to Jim …

Re the STW ..

The STW have taken on the fight on behave of everyone who sails Greek waters , personal I think they should be commended for their willingness to try and do something about this unfair tax which won’t only discourages people from sailing in Greece and keeping their boats here but also harm Greek business .
I guess like everyone else, we have to wait and see what the outcome is .
In the meantime, STW keep up the good work

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
sailaboutvic said:
Jim I have a question please ,
Now that you only have to get your stamp once a year and no one has to report that they are leaving Greece or re-entering unless they are coming or going to an non EU country how would the Greek government know if the boat have been in Greece more than 180 days, unless off Couse you have a year contact with a marina or been on the hard , but even then you may have left Greece for some time . ( off Couse not if you been on the hard )
“ it only obligatory to obtain a departure and arrival permit when crossing borders “
End to my question to Jim …
Click to expand...

If Greece decided to legalise the tax on EU boats by going to the 180 days system, they could then require that boats leaving Greece prove their absence by using the DEKPA to check out.

The system they apply to cars is even more simple. If they have reason to suspect your car has been in Greece for more than 180 days, it's up to you to prove your car has been somewhere else. If you can't prove it, you pay the tax, plus a penalty. Meanwile, boat papers are held until you've proved your case (for cars, they may pinch your number plate!). That's how the Spanish 180 day system has been implemented for boats as well as cars.
 
Last edited:
The system they apply to cars is even more simple. If they have reason to suspect your car has been in Greece for more than 180 days, it's up to you to prove your car has been somewhere else. If you can't prove it, you pay the tax, plus a penalty.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately this system is a joke, as I am sure you know! I know of Brit reg cars that are still driving around the Ionian after six years, no tax, no insurance, no mot, not enough plod on the ground to enforce, a lot of Greek cars are the same, except they have bald tyres as well:)
 
RichardS said:
It's not the case at the moment but I think Vic is saying that this will be the case when the new law is finally implemented.

Richard
Click to expand...
When we arrived back in Greece and as we now plain to spend the winter here and last time that I had a stamp was a year and a half , I tho it would be a good idea to check in Corfu , the PP give us a colour booklet , more waste of money , first time in 16 years , it called , sailing easy in Greece , product by the government ,
it is in English , French Germany and Greek , it clearly say what I wrote above , BUT what will interest you Richard , it don't apply if you are coming from Croatia as they are not part of the Schengen yet . You still have to clear in and out .

bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
sailaboutvic said:
When we arrived back in Greece and as we now plain to spend the winter here and last time that I had a stamp was a year and a half , I tho it would be a good idea to check in Corfu , the PP give us a colour booklet , more waste of money , first time in 16 years , it called , sailing easy in Greece , product by the government ,
it is in English , French Germany and Greek , it clearly say what I wrote above , BUT what will interest you Richard , it don't apply if you are coming from Croatia as they are not part of the Schengen yet . You still have to clear in and out .

bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
Click to expand...

I'll be glad when Croatia does join Schengen - I think it's planned for July 2015 - as I thought that I would then just be able to check in with the Port Police at Marina Gouvia and not have to go Passport Control / Customs in Corfu Town as well, which is what happened last month.

It would be great if there was no need to have to report to anyone, at least not at the Greek end of the Adriatic!!!!

Richard
 
alexsailor said:
I always say that I arrived from Italy... (despite I sailed from Croatia)
Click to expand...

This is what we done . and had no problem , althought we did just arrived from Italy :) but even so we would had said the same ,
Richard your to honest , some time in life you have to bend the rule a little .the only thing to remember is if you have young children don't take the into the PP with you , you know how they like to correct you , ( no we didn't dad we came from Croatia) :)

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
Last edited:
Cardo said:
Ok, so, just to clarify, as we are leaving for Italy from Corfu in a week's time, we do NOT have to pay the PP a visit to check out?
Click to expand...

Just to add to the mix: we left Corfu just over a week or so ago and asked the PP if we had to check out, as we too are going to Italy. They said yes we did, so when we left we went back and specifically said we wanted to check out because we were going to Italy. She then duly stamped us in and out on the same day, these are just the regular in and out stamps, not checking out as I understand it. This entire process was done with the same woman throughout, so in our experience the answer is yes and no or maybe, sometimes, and possibly, and not on a Tuesday!

Clear enough?
 
Carmel2 said:
Just to add to the mix: we left Corfu just over a week or so ago and asked the PP if we had to check out, as we too are going to Italy. They said yes we did, so when we left we went back and specifically said we wanted to check out because we were going to Italy. She then duly stamped us in and out on the same day, these are just the regular in and out stamps, not checking out as I understand it. This entire process was done with the same woman throughout, so in our experience the answer is yes and no or maybe, sometimes, and possibly, and not on a Tuesday!

Clear enough?
Click to expand...

Good reply . :) sound like the same women we had , she may had a pain in her right hand on the day we was there as she only stamp us once .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.co
 
I was talking to a German boat owner in Zea, last week. He is a member of the "Deutscher Segler Verband Kreuzerabtielung" their equivalent of a sort of RYA/CA. He confirmed that this association is also making very robust representations to the EU authorities in respect of this so-called tax.

Maybe if a third country's national organisations abandoned their sycophantic posture and joined in the fight, the Greeks could drop this nonsense which is of deep embarrassment to the average Greek in the street.

Currently berthed in Epidauros.
 
Steve C Cronin said:
I was talking to a German boat owner in Zea, last week. He is a member of the "Deutscher Segler Verband Kreuzerabtielung" their equivalent of a sort of RYA/CA. He confirmed that this association is also making very robust representations to the EU authorities in respect of this so-called tax.

Maybe if a third country's national organisations abandoned their sycophantic posture and joined in the fight, the Greeks could drop this nonsense which is of deep embarrassment to the average Greek in the street.

Currently berthed in Epidauros.
Click to expand...
That's old news Steve , so had the Dutch and I understand the Italians too , the Uk is the only country that's so far seen to have gone a long with it , I am not sure why . But mate you know what ? I wouldn't worry about it too much , it 10 months now since the law came in and still nothing is happening .
we not been in Greece much this year but it now near the end so the season as chandlers , restaurants , shops all saying the same thing , how quiet it been .

Are you Greek government daft enough to make it worst .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top