Greek residency

[sailaboutvic]

One of my concern as been how thing may change for all them getting residency in different EU country just to get around the 90/180 rule as I wrote before getting residency because you want to move and live in a country is one thing but I never been too sure about residency just to get around the 90/180 rule and I hope tho who have won't have any problem come next or the year after .
@ Mistroma, Mike if you have an Irish passport so I understand there no reason your wife can't stay in the EU as long as your there too. Look into it .
Many have taken this route rather then residency,
I think come if no t next year but following year there maybe a lot more problem for them who are full time liveaboard.

Good luck every one .

 

[Mistroma]

One of my concern as been how thing may change for all them getting residency in different EU country just to get around the 90/180 rule as I wrote before getting residency because you want to move and live in a country is one thing but I never been too sure about residency just to get around the 90/180 rule and I hope tho who have won't have any problem come next or the year after .
@ Mistroma, Mike if you have an Irish passport so I understand there no reason your wife can't stay in the EU as long as your there too. Look into it .
Many have taken this route rather then residency,
I think come if no t next year but following year there maybe a lot more problem for them who are full time liveaboard.

Good luck every one .

Already looked into it Vic, thanks. I checked it out in detail around middle of the year in case we didn't get out to Greece this year. I always like to have a plan B and in this case it was to use my Irish passport in 2021. I'll use exactly the same method as I would have used in 2020 but Lynne will need a different form. I don't think it is a big deal, same conditions but slightly different paperwork.

I read a document several months ago describing all the problems EU citizens have wrt non-EU family members. The EU rules are very clear but implementation seems to vary a lot and not just in places you'd expect. I seem to remember people in Germany, UK and Ireland getting the run around. Best plan seems to be to have all relevant rules already printed out in local language. A troublesome official can then read it and confer with his superiors. I believe that this usually works but not always.

I found the document, it is quite interesting to read about all the problems people run into when the law seems to be clear. I think detailed stories are in the footnote references.
https://ecas.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ECAS-Study-on-Freedom-of-Movement-in-the-EU.pdf

Even EU being an EU national doesn't guarantee trouble free travel inside the EU.
Regarding EU nationals, while they face significantly fewer problems when travelling within the EU, they have, in some cases, been subject to excessive border checks and identification requirements. In some cases, their national identity cards have not been accepted as a valid travel document, airlines have imposed excessive requirements on them, and their own Member State would not allow them to exit when they travelled only with a passport issued by another Member State.

 

[Tony Cross]

I think I've said before on here, but it seems to me that for Mediterranean cruisers the safest option, at least in the shorter term, is to do whatever is necessary now to acquire legal residence (which may include tax residence) in your Mediterranean country of choice. You can always cruise around anywhere you like in the summer but return to your country of residence (not necessarily to the same marina of course) each winter. That way you are squeaky clean and legal everywhere you go and you don't have to hide in the shadows.

If after a few years of experience, it's beneficial for you to change your residence, even back to the UK, and still enjoy relatively free movement then there would be nothing but a bit of bureaucracy standing in your way.

 

[grumpygit]

I think I've said before on here, but it seems to me that for Mediterranean cruisers the safest option, at least in the shorter term, is to do whatever is necessary now to acquire legal residence (which may include tax residence) in your Mediterranean country of choice. You can always cruise around anywhere you like in the summer but return to your country of residence (not necessarily to the same marina of course) each winter. That way you are squeaky clean and legal everywhere you go and you don't have to hide in the shadows.

If after a few years of experience, it's beneficial for you to change your residence, even back to the UK, and still enjoy relatively free movement then there would be nothing but a bit of bureaucracy standing in your way.

This is a sensible approach to take I believe. Regardless of how long we spend in Greece or the UK, I do file a tax return here in Greece as well as in the UK, I have never paid tax in Greece because I have never earnt anything but the Greek accountant does charge €60 each year.
Also I believe anyone how has got a Greek tax number(FME) may be to get a mobile phone set up or for any other reason like residency should do a tax return as a matter of course.
I can't see things changing to much and I'm sure Greece is keeping the same tax relationship with the UK post Brexit but if it does change we'll just have to wait and see rather than second guessing.
As we turn into a third country at the year end, I think travelling across the EU will become more of a challenge for all UK citizens, also will any goods that are being shipped in person or by courier from the UK.

 

[rjcoles]

Rules for Greek residency changed a couple of days ago! They will only give a residency card for up to the end of this year, come January everyone will need to get the new biometric card!

 

[Tony Cross]

Rules for Greek residency changed a couple of days ago! They will only give a residency card for up to the end of this year, come January everyone will need to get the new biometric card!

Indeed. Those with existing buff registration cards will get a residence card for 5 years, those with the blue cards will get a residence card for 10 years. The cost apparently will be €16 and you'll need to present all the same documents you did for registration (including the buff or blue registration card) along with 4 passport sized photographs.

The existing cards can (and must) be exchanged between 1st Jan 2021 and 30th June 2021.

 

[Star-Lord]

I am not getting residency in any European countries for a number of reasons. For example Italy is min 23% tax even if you earn 10k pa or even 5k pa there are no bands and health ins is €500 pa and then an accountant to prove you are not a tax resident (by spending less than 180 days a year) and then there is more paperwork - and if after a year or two you want to move on there is more accountancy and more papers to say you no longer want to be resident - and then you have to get residency in your new spot and it all start again. And if you are resident abroad your bank may leave you in the lurch even if you have a UK address - we do not know how they will act down the line - just because you are good for now does not mean you are good forever. NHS may also get shifty - Also I believe I have more rights as a foreigner abroad rather than a plain old resident - anyways I did not leave UK to live on a boat to get residency anywhere LMAO. The old plan was Greece to Albania every 90 days - maybe even leaving boat in Greece and dinghy over to Albania and AirBnb and live in the lap of luxury for between €300-500 pcm. Or take the boat over and anchor / harbour wall it the best you can - you will find after a while you will find a good spot or a friendly fishing boat may even rent you a spot somewhere... The new plan is to pop between Tunisia and Italy. Tunisia has a few spots I have heard of from French sailors that are a bit basic but cost the same as a bag of chips per night. You could go to Turkey, Cyprus, Israel, Montenegro and I think Croatia? Anyways a lot of second home owners will sell if they can't live more then 90 days so many European countries will be giving us longer visas imho. You telling me France is not going to give us Brits 180 day visas on arrival ??!! We shall see. If you insist in staying in one marina or anchorage then you will have to get residency obv. But I have met one Brit couple here in Italy who are staying put till they get thrown out!! I reckon this is not a bad tactic - start your engine once a week - keep tanks full - and be ready to scarper at the drop of a hat.

 

[Mistroma]

I am not getting residency in any European countries for a number of reasons. For example Italy is min 23% tax even if you earn 10k pa or even 5k pa there are no bands and health ins is €500 pa and then an accountant to prove you are not a tax resident (by spending less than 180 days a year) and then there is more paperwork - and if after a year or two you want to move on there is more accountancy and more papers to say you no longer want to be resident - and then you have to get residency in your new spot and it all start again. And if you are resident abroad your bank may leave you in the lurch even if you have a UK address - we do not know how they will act down the line - just because you are good for now does not mean you are good forever. NHS may also get shifty - Also I believe I have more rights as a foreigner abroad rather than a plain old resident - anyways I did not leave UK to live on a boat to get residency anywhere LMAO. The old plan was Greece to Albania every 90 days - maybe even leaving boat in Greece and dinghy over to Albania and AirBnb and live in the lap of luxury for between €300-500 pcm. Or take the boat over and anchor / harbour wall it the best you can - you will find after a while you will find a good spot or a friendly fishing boat may even rent you a spot somewhere... The new plan is to pop between Tunisia and Italy. Tunisia has a few spots I have heard of from French sailors that are a bit basic but cost the same as a bag of chips per night. You could go to Turkey, Cyprus, Israel, Montenegro and I think Croatia? Anyways a lot of second home owners will sell if they can't live more then 90 days so many European countries will be giving us longer visas imho. You telling me France is not going to give us Brits 180 day visas on arrival ??!! We shall see. If you insist in staying in one marina or anchorage then you will have to get residency obv. But I have met one Brit couple here in Italy who are staying put till they get thrown out!! I reckon this is not a bad tactic - start your engine once a week - keep tanks full - and be ready to scarper at the drop of a hat.

I haven't considered permanent residence either for similar NHS and tax reasons. However, the "residence" most people talk about for Greece is the "buff card".

Unless I'm mistaken, this doesn't require you to pay tax in Greece. It is simply a feature of the EU rule giving me, as an EU citizen, the right to live and work in Greece. I need to register the fact I'm going to be in Greece for more than 90 days but am not forced to remain in Greece for more than 183 days each year. The EU allows countries to manage stay over 90 days in their own way (usually proving financial support, medical cover etc.). I thought that the situation was the same in other EU countries although their processes will vary.

I could be completely mistaken or it could just be that you are really talking about a permanent move to an EU country, taking out citizenship and so forth.

I don't think anyone considered a country leaving the EU and the rules don't stop UK citizens getting a "buff card" before the end of 2020. It will be too late to apply in 2021 but I suppose that Greece could still come up with something to allow a longer stay for 3rd country nationals. I wasn't going to risk that when it's a no-brainer to get a "buff card", pity I didn't do it last year. Covid has knocked that on the head and I bet many other people are in the same boat.

I have a plan "B" and applied for an Irish passport and it was delivered earlier this year. I can still apply for a "buff card" next year and get the new bio-metric version. The process shouldn't change as I will still be an EU citizen but my wife will need to use a different form (3rd country citizen, married to EU citizen).

I expect that you are correct in thinking EU countries will try to come up with something to allow extended stays. However, I always try to keep options open.

Wing it and you might run into problems with severe consequences (e.g. Banned from EU for up to 5 years, fined a few thousand euro or imprisoned). A fine is probably the worst that will happen unless you are a criminal, start a fight with the officials etc.

Making use of a free legal option pre-2021 is worth investigating and shouldn't cause tax problems as long as you don't stay longer than 183 days in one country. Keeping a UK address as well is also a no-brainer.

 

[Tony Cross]

I haven't considered permanent residence either for similar NHS and tax reasons. However, the "residence" most people talk about for Greece is the "buff card".

Unless I'm mistaken, this doesn't require you to pay tax in Greece. It is simply a feature of the EU rule giving me, as an EU citizen, the right to live and work in Greece. I need to register the fact I'm going to be in Greece for more than 90 days but am not forced to remain in Greece for more than 183 days each year. The EU allows countries to manage stay over 90 days in their own way (usually proving financial support, medical cover etc.). I thought that the situation was the same in other EU countries although their processes will vary.

I could be completely mistaken or it could just be that you are really talking about a permanent move to an EU country, taking out citizenship and so forth.

You're absolutely correct here. Possession of the buff registration card does not itself make you liable for Greek tax. You're also quite right that as long as you spend less than 183 days in any tax year in Greece you won't be liable for Greek tax (even if you hold a buff registration card).

However, if you want to buy anything sizeable in Greece (a car or scooter for example) or rent an apartment long term, or carry out many other transactions, you will need a Greek tax number (ΑΦΜ) and having one of those requires you to submit yearly tax returns, even if they show zero tax to pay. Greece hasn't been too fussed about enforcing this in the past but Brexit may make them think again.

From January those holding buff or blue registration cards will have to exchange them for an alien residence card. AFAIK at the moment in order to keep one of those you do actually have to be resident in Greece (I would guess for at least 183 days a year as is the case in the UK). It remains to be seen whether or how they might enforce this.

I don't think anyone considered a country leaving the EU and the rules don't stop UK citizens getting a "buff card" before the end of 2020. It will be too late to apply in 2021 but I suppose that Greece could still come up with something to allow a longer stay for 3rd country nationals. I wasn't going to risk that when it's a no-brainer to get a "buff card", pity I didn't do it last year. Covid has knocked that on the head and I bet many other people are in the same boat.

I understand that Greece are no longer issuing buff registration cards. I've heard that people applying this late (when there are fewer than 90 days left in the year) are being told to come back and apply for an alien registration card in the New Year - though the procedure and requirements to do that after the transition period has ended might be more complex.

I have a plan "B" and applied for an Irish passport and it was delivered earlier this year. I can still apply for a "buff card" next year and get the new bio-metric version. The process shouldn't change as I will still be an EU citizen but my wife will need to use a different form (3rd country citizen, married to EU citizen).

Then you're sorted. As a citizen of an EU member state you can apply for a buff card (the taxation rules will still apply though). I don't know how your EU status will affect your wife's application for alien residence but I would suspect it will make it pretty straightforward.

Wing it and you might run into problems with severe consequences (e.g. Banned from EU for up to 5 years, fined a few thousand euro or imprisoned). A fine is probably the worst that will happen unless you are a criminal, start a fight with the officials etc.

It probably depends on which country catches you. In the case of Greece I would also expect a fine to be the penalty in the first instance - unless they suspect you've spent more than 183 days in Greece when they might try to go after back taxes as well. It could get quite unpleasant and messy, not to mention expensive.

Making use of a free legal option pre-2021 is worth investigating and shouldn't cause tax problems as long as you don't stay longer than 183 days in one country. Keeping a UK address as well is also a no-brainer.

Except that in Greece the 'free legal option' seems not to exist any more. Keeping a UK address certainly is a 'no-brainer'.

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks Tony. A friend has been in Greece every summer for about 18 years and owns a Greek car and house. He thinks that he got a "buff card" many years ago when getting the house or car and also has a Greek tax number. He wasn't going to bother about a new "buff card" even though he had no idea where the old one was kept (or even if he actually had one).

I've been trying to persuade him that it's a no-brainer to check it out and get one if he can before returning to UK . Unfortunately, he might have missed the boat by delaying if the new card is going to cause problems and any significant delay. I'll try to find out if he has been to the police station and if so, what happened.

It will be interesting to find out about the new alien residence card. EU rules won't have changed for me next year and they seem pretty clear about registering to comply with local rules. However, I thought that they were also pretty clear about being able to leave a country at will and spending under 183 days there even when registered. I had a document explaining the rules and will need to dig it out again.

 

[grumpygit]

You're absolutely correct here. Possession of the buff registration card does not itself make you liable for Greek tax. You're also quite right that as long as you spend less than 183 days in any tax year in Greece you won't be liable for Greek tax (even if you hold a buff registration card).

However, if you want to buy anything sizeable in Greece (a car or scooter for example) or rent an apartment long term, or carry out many other transactions, you will need a Greek tax number (ΑΦΜ) and having one of those requires you to submit yearly tax returns, even if they show zero tax to pay. Greece hasn't been too fussed about enforcing this in the past but Brexit may make them think again.

From January those holding buff or blue registration cards will have to exchange them for an alien residence card. AFAIK at the moment in order to keep one of those you do actually have to be resident in Greece (I would guess for at least 183 days a year as is the case in the UK). It remains to be seen whether or how they might enforce this.


I understand that Greece are no longer issuing buff registration cards. I've heard that people applying this late (when there are fewer than 90 days left in the year) are being told to come back and apply for an alien registration card in the New Year - though the procedure and requirements to do that after the transition period has ended might be more complex.


Then you're sorted. As a citizen of an EU member state you can apply for a buff card (the taxation rules will still apply though). I don't know how your EU status will affect your wife's application for alien residence but I would suspect it will make it pretty straightforward.


It probably depends on which country catches you. In the case of Greece I would also expect a fine to be the penalty in the first instance - unless they suspect you've spent more than 183 days in Greece when they might try to go after back taxes as well. It could get quite unpleasant and messy, not to mention expensive.


Except that in Greece the 'free legal option' seems not to exist any more. Keeping a UK address certainly is a 'no-brainer'.

All on the button I think Tony except a friend applied for a buff card in Nafplio this last Tuesday and was told it would be ready this coming week.

 

[Tony Cross]

Thanks Tony. A friend has been in Greece every summer for about 18 years and owns a Greek car and house. He thinks that he got a "buff card" many years ago when getting the house or car and also has a Greek tax number. He wasn't going to bother about a new "buff card" even though he had no idea where the old one was kept (or even if he actually had one).

I've been trying to persuade him that it's a no-brainer to check it out and get one if he can before returning to UK . Unfortunately, he might have missed the boat by delaying if the new card is going to cause problems and any significant delay. I'll try to find out if he has been to the police station and if so, what happened.

The police will certainly have a record of his registration (everyone has their own folder of documents) so a visit to them would be my suggestion - before he returns to the UK.

It will be interesting to find out about the new alien residence card. EU rules won't have changed for me next year and they seem pretty clear about registering to comply with local rules. However, I thought that they were also pretty clear about being able to leave a country at will and spending under 183 days there even when registered. I had a document explaining the rules and will need to dig it out again.

I'm not speaking from any knowledge here, only bits that I've picked up. It seems that the situation is different for EU residents who are registered here (buff or blue card) and third-country nationals who have alien residence cards. It seems form what I'm learning at the moment that the former (EU registered people) don't need to remain in Greece for any particular period but the latter (third-party nationals) do need to remain resident in Greece to keep the card long term (I think there are limits on how long you can be out of Greece). Personally I don't find that unreasonable, if you're claiming residence in a country then you really ought to be resident there.

 

[Mistroma]

The police will certainly have a record of his registration (everyone has their own folder of documents) so a visit to them would be my suggestion - before he returns to the UK.

I'm not speaking from any knowledge here, only bits that I've picked up. It seems that the situation is different for EU residents who are registered here (buff or blue card) and third-country nationals who have alien residence cards. It seems form what I'm learning at the moment that the former (EU registered people) don't need to remain in Greece for any particular period but the latter (third-party nationals) do need to remain resident in Greece to keep the card long term (I think there are limits on how long you can be out of Greece). Personally I don't find that unreasonable, if you're claiming residence in a country then you really ought to be resident there.

Yes, I actually spoke to him on the phone and he said that he would go to them on Monday.

You are probably correct about the alien residence cards for 3rd country nationals. I do vaguely remember reading something about them losing the right to stay if they weren't actually resident but can't remember where I read it. I'm convinced that EU Freedom of Movement rules mean that I'll be able to come and go as I please as long as I register. That just tells them I want to stay longer than 90 days and the permission doesn't lapse for a few years. It's them up to me to keep straight wrt tax by either staying less than 183 days or completing tax forms.

 

[Mistroma]

We arrived in Preveza and my wife's passport was stamped. I asked what would happen if she remained in Greece for 6 months next year. I was told they would always stamp her UK passport even when arriving as the wife of an EU citizen. Overstaying wouldn't be a problem as long as she obtained a residency card to show when she exited. I can see problems there with stamps 6 months apart or no exit stamp at all.

I already have the correct documentation for our applications apart from one single form. I have completed form "1120" but do not know the equivalent form for a 3rd country national. It seems sensible to obtain the missing form when we are in Greece.

Our boat is currently ashore close to 3 different authorities covering Aktio, Preveza and Lefkas (I now consider this the Brexit triangle where applications vanish). We are staying in rented accomodation in Preveza for a few weeks and have a contract with Ionian Yard until May 2022.


1) Preveza
Visit address given on Greek Gov. web-site for Alien Dept. and told to go to police station.
Relevant person not at police station on Friday, told to call for an appointment on Monday and we needed new passport photographs.

Bought new passport photographs for 20 euro. Our own pictures had a very slight shade difference in the background on left vs. right on my picture, barely visible to me. My wife has a fringe with a few wisps of fine hair. Not allowed and she had to use pins to hold any trace of hair clear of her forehead. Claudia Winkleman would never get a Greek passport.

On Monday the officer looked at my wife's passport and said he couldn't issue anything as she had only arrived in Greece and needed to be there for 3 months.
No stamp in my passport of course and so he looked at the documents I had and said I needed a permanent address. The 3 week villa rental did not count and he would not accept receipts for the town quay if I came back next year.

He was happy with our EHIC cards and said we were fine for health cover.

I was then told that I could apply next year after 3 months in Greece and a permanent address. My wife could apply only after I received my card but she would need to go to a "different department" (not able to supply English name of the Department, not even certain he knew the Greek name).

We tried the Town hall office again and were told to go the the Police station. I persevered and they contacted another office. We answered all their questions and I displayed my Irish pasport and my wife's UK passport. The result was that my wife could only stay for 90 days but I could stay as long as I liked with no need to do anything. Obviously incorrect as they aren't treating her as the wife of an EU citizen. I was told that they could not give me a copy of the correct form for my wife to complete for next year. They refused on the grounds that these forms change every 3 months due to Brexit. Complete rubbish of course as my particular application has nothing to do with Brexit. It would be the same form if she was Canadian, Australian, etc.


2) Vonitsa
The officer there told me to contact another Department in Agrinio and supplied an email address and a phone number.

I recognised the phone number as a lady in Preveza said she had obtained her card in Agrinio. She coulnd't use her yard contract as they had launched but a receipt for 1 week stay on the quay in Vonitsa was fine. She was told that they only required the address for the day she was interviewed. However, they wouldn't accept EHIC or UK travel insurance and she had to pay 500 euro for Greek medical cover.

I sent an email as the office would be closed and discovered it wasn't valid. I called the number the next day but they refused to put me through to anyone. The next appointment would not be until the end of October. I suspect that reduces their workload as it weeds out people who only stay for the summer. They did give a valid email and said that they would send out details of everything they needed if I wrote to that address.

The email was delivered and read. Needless to say, no sign of a reply after 3 days.

3) Lefkas
I've been told that I can use a solicitor in Lefkas to do all the paperwork (2 minimal single sheet forms plus all the other documents I have). It will cost 1000 euro (probably per person) and take 3 months. I think that this is going down the wrong track as they were interested in proving I'd been in Greece prior to Brexit. None of that has any bearing on my case. I am an EU citizen and my wife is travelling in my company. I can stay anywhere in EU and only need to register a stay over 90 days to comply with local rules.


Situation so far:
EU law is quite clear about my wife's right to stay and it seems reasonable for us both to apply at the same time. My Irish passport makes my application simple but nobody ever applies in normal circumstances. My wife should be easy as well but many official won't know EU law and just throw in irrelevant Brexit stuff.

Preveza
Requires permanent address, EHIC OK but I must obtain a card before my wife is eligible. Her passport will be stamped and she must be in Greece for 3 months before applying. Really stupid idea as she could be fined on exit if her application stalls.

Vonitsa
Nothing concrete but they will probably use my yard contract as an address. I'll probably avoid launching until I get an interview. It seems that there will be 3 or more all day trips to Agrinio for interview, document corrections, fingerprinting and card collection. All done in person and hopefully together on the same day. I usually buy extra annual travel medical cover in UK. It is going to be very annoying if I have to pay 500 euro for annual cover when I won't be in Greece and am already covered anyway.

Lefkas
Option of using a lawyer is expensive and only really needed for people who need to prove they already live in Greece and get around Brexit that way.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We arrived in Preveza and my wife's passport was stamped. I asked what would happen if she remained in Greece for 6 months next year. I was told they would always stamp her UK passport even when arriving as the wife of an EU citizen. Overstaying wouldn't be a problem as long as she obtained a residency card to show when she exited. I can see problems there with stamps 6 months apart or no exit stamp at all.

I already have the correct documentation for our applications apart from one single form. I have completed form "1120" but do not know the equivalent form for a 3rd country national. It seems sensible to obtain the missing form when we are in Greece.

Our boat is currently ashore close to 3 different authorities covering Aktio, Preveza and Lefkas (I now consider this the Brexit triangle where applications vanish). We are staying in rented accomodation in Preveza for a few weeks and have a contract with Ionian Yard until May 2022.


1) Preveza
Visit address given on Greek Gov. web-site for Alien Dept. and told to go to police station.
Relevant person not at police station on Friday, told to call for an appointment on Monday and we needed new passport photographs.

Bought new passport photographs for 20 euro. Our own pictures had a very slight shade difference in the background on left vs. right on my picture, barely visible to me. My wife has a fringe with a few wisps of fine hair. Not allowed and she had to use pins to hold any trace of hair clear of her forehead. Claudia Winkleman would never get a Greek passport.

On Monday the officer looked at my wife's passport and said he couldn't issue anything as she had only arrived in Greece and needed to be there for 3 months.
No stamp in my passport of course and so he looked at the documents I had and said I needed a permanent address. The 3 week villa rental did not count and he would not accept receipts for the town quay if I came back next year.

He was happy with our EHIC cards and said we were fine for health cover.

I was then told that I could apply next year after 3 months in Greece and a permanent address. My wife could apply only after I received my card but she would need to go to a "different department" (not able to supply English name of the Department, not even certain he knew the Greek name).

We tried the Town hall office again and were told to go the the Police station. I persevered and they contacted another office. We answered all their questions and I displayed my Irish pasport and my wife's UK passport. The result was that my wife could only stay for 90 days but I could stay as long as I liked with no need to do anything. Obviously incorrect as they aren't treating her as the wife of an EU citizen. I was told that they could not give me a copy of the correct form for my wife to complete for next year. They refused on the grounds that these forms change every 3 months due to Brexit. Complete rubbish of course as my particular application has nothing to do with Brexit. It would be the same form if she was Canadian, Australian, etc.


2) Vonitsa
The officer there told me to contact another Department in Agrinio and supplied an email address and a phone number.

I recognised the phone number as a lady in Preveza said she had obtained her card in Agrinio. She coulnd't use her yard contract as they had launched but a receipt for 1 week stay on the quay in Vonitsa was fine. She was told that they only required the address for the day she was interviewed. However, they wouldn't accept EHIC or UK travel insurance and she had to pay 500 euro for Greek medical cover.

I sent an email as the office would be closed and discovered it wasn't valid. I called the number the next day but they refused to put me through to anyone. The next appointment would not be until the end of October. I suspect that reduces their workload as it weeds out people who only stay for the summer. They did give a valid email and said that they would send out details of everything they needed if I wrote to that address.

The email was delivered and read. Needless to say, no sign of a reply after 3 days.

3) Lefkas
I've been told that I can use a solicitor in Lefkas to do all the paperwork (2 minimal single sheet forms plus all the other documents I have). It will cost 1000 euro (probably per person) and take 3 months. I think that this is going down the wrong track as they were interested in proving I'd been in Greece prior to Brexit. None of that has any bearing on my case. I am an EU citizen and my wife is travelling in my company. I can stay anywhere in EU and only need to register a stay over 90 days to comply with local rules.


Situation so far:
EU law is quite clear about my wife's right to stay and it seems reasonable for us both to apply at the same time. My Irish passport makes my application simple but nobody ever applies in normal circumstances. My wife should be easy as well but many official won't know EU law and just throw in irrelevant Brexit stuff.

Preveza
Requires permanent address, EHIC OK but I must obtain a card before my wife is eligible. Her passport will be stamped and she must be in Greece for 3 months before applying. Really stupid idea as she could be fined on exit if her application stalls.

Vonitsa
Nothing concrete but they will probably use my yard contract as an address. I'll probably avoid launching until I get an interview. It seems that there will be 3 or more all day trips to Agrinio for interview, document corrections, fingerprinting and card collection. All done in person and hopefully together on the same day. I usually buy extra annual travel medical cover in UK. It is going to be very annoying if I have to pay 500 euro for annual cover when I won't be in Greece and am already covered anyway.

Lefkas
Option of using a lawyer is expensive and only really needed for people who need to prove they already live in Greece and get around Brexit that way.

Not much change then Mike , still no two officials have the same rule or even know the rules

 

[grumpygit]

The police will certainly have a record of his registration (everyone has their own folder of documents) so a visit to them would be my suggestion - before he returns to the UK.


I'm not speaking from any knowledge here, only bits that I've picked up. It seems that the situation is different for EU residents who are registered here (buff or blue card) and third-country nationals who have alien residence cards. It seems form what I'm learning at the moment that the former (EU registered people) don't need to remain in Greece for any particular period but the latter (third-party nationals) do need to remain resident in Greece to keep the card long term (I think there are limits on how long you can be out of Greece). Personally I don't find that unreasonable, if you're claiming residence in a country then you really ought to be resident there.

This is a general insight of what is needed to get a Greek Residence Card, but I have no knowledge of an EU person getting residency for a spouse of a 3rd country national. I can only think that the privilege of the cards will be where the same rules apply.
For a Brit to get a Greek biometric residence card you must already hold a buff or blue card or under rules of the Withdrawal Agreement you must have been present in Greece on the 31st December 2020.
You then must own a property or have a rental contract, a tax number and utility bills, you may even have to have a translated marriage certificate, of course we are in Greece and yes criteria's can vary a tad.
You need have 5 years of tax returns to get the 10 year residency card and for this you may remain out of Greece for up to 5 years without the loss of privilege of the residency card.
If you don't have the tax papers you can only receive a 5 year card and to retain this privilege you must remain in Greece for more than six months and it cannot be regained if this stipulation is broken. Remaining in Greece for more 6 months technically and legally then makes you a Greek tax resident.
A bit of a Catch 22 I'm afraid.

 

[JFowler]

I don’t think Grumpy has got it quite right. We recently got 10 year biometric residence cards in Kos. The documents they looked at were:
Passport
Buff Card
GHIC
Marina / Yard Contracts from 2015
Credit Card statements from 2013
Translation of Marriage Cert- this was because the Marina Contracts and Credit Card statements were in one name only.

We took other docs just in case but they didn’t want them.
Certainly no request for Tax Returns!

 

[grumpygit]

I don’t think Grumpy has got it quite right. We recently got 10 year biometric residence cards in Kos. The documents they looked at were:
Passport
Buff Card
GHIC
Marina / Yard Contracts from 2015
Credit Card statements from 2013
Translation of Marriage Cert- this was because the Marina Contracts and Credit Card statements were in one name only.

We took other docs just in case but they didn’t want them.
Certainly no request for Tax Returns!

The operative line of my thread was . . . "of course we are in Greece and yes criteria's can vary a tad".
I can only say from what was needed in my prefecture and in other prefectures that I have heard about. For instance, we needed to give electronic finger prints and you would need at least need a tax number and to show a fluid bank balance all of which you have failed to mention.
A difference is that we did not need a translated marriage certificate, credit card statements, or GHIC ( but we needed private medical cover) . Many offices won't accept Marina/Yard contracts as a permanent address. All I can say is that you have been very fortunate in your dealings with the establishment but be assured that to keep the rights of the biometric card you must do annual tax returns.
The Greeks are very quickly catching up on technology so very soon everything will belong to a interconnected data base . . . . Big brother is out there watching!

 

[JFowler]

Grumpy,
They did take digital finger prints. We had current bank statements available but they weren’t asked for. No request for Tax Return.
As you say requirements do vary but we have many friends who have successfully applied and none has been asked for a Tax Return.

 

[grumpygit]

J.
Seeing you are based in Leros you could be quite possibly be talking about Kos office for obtaining your cards which I have been told by friends on Leros that this office is the entrance to Valhalla. not my words may I add.
I can assure you that I needed to produce 5 years of Greek Tax Returns to obtain a ten year Biometric Greek Residence Card from the Nafplion Alien Office. I am also amazed how anyone spending a lot of time in Greece does not have a tax number. you can't even get a mobile phone without this.
Like I said we are in Greece and there is no reasoning to the differences between offices. I am not trying to give out false or different information, just my experiences. Fore armed is fore warned