Greek license requirement

maxy

maxy

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Apr 2009
Messages
126
Location
Orhaniye, Marmaris
www.perfect-sailing.com
One of our clients has been told to visit Greece he will require two crew members to be licensed. We have not heard this before. we have heard this in relation to professionally run commercial yachts. Has anybody else come across this?

Cheers

Kevin
 
Thanks for the suggestion. Our experience of charter agents giving accurate information is disappointing, Our belief is the same as yours, but these things change quickly, as we well know from operating charters in Turkey. I am hoping a live aboard with recent personal experience will comment.

Regards

Kevin
 
If they want to be really awkward, then can insist on icc for skipper, and competent crew for one other, they all need the coin, ring them and ask, they do not like to lose money, there are ways around it!
 
maxy said:
One of our clients has been told to visit Greece he will require two crew members to be licensed. We have not heard this before. we have heard this in relation to professionally run commercial yachts. Has anybody else come across this?

Cheers

Kevin
Click to expand...

The law is very unclear. Charter boats under the Greek flag require a qualified skipper. Many operators also insist on a competent crew. The ICC satisfies this requirement. Until recently enforcement has been variable, but it is now almost universal and the Port Police will not issue the charter permit without sight of the document. This does not necessarily apply to flotilla or sailing schools as they are considered to be under supervision of a competent person.

Although there is always a possibility that private boats and skippers may be asked for a licence it rarely happens, but it is worth having an ICC or equivalent just in case. If the boat is entering Greece from outside the EU it is likely to be subject to more scrutiny so extra important to have all documentation up to date. Changes in Greece on a number of fronts means that the rules are not always clear nor applied consistently.
 
>Our experience of charter agents giving accurate information is disappointing

Bear in mind LateSail is the world's largest discounted charter company, they deal with over 700 operators around the world and have up to 10,000 boats on their site at any one time. So if anyone is likely to have been told about changes to qualifications in Greece they are the one. Simply because the Greek charter companies don't want crews turning up without the right qualification for obvious reasons .
 
F
Tranona said:
The law is very unclear. Charter boats under the Greek flag require a qualified skipper. Many operators also insist on a competent crew. The ICC satisfies this requirement. Until recently enforcement has been variable, but it is now almost universal and the Port Police will not issue the charter permit without sight of the document. This does not necessarily apply to flotilla or sailing schools as they are considered to be under supervision of a competent person.

Although there is always a possibility that private boats and skippers may be asked for a licence it rarely happens, but it is worth having an ICC or equivalent just in case. If the boat is entering Greece from outside the EU it is likely to be subject to more scrutiny so extra important to have all documentation up to date. Changes in Greece on a number of fronts means that the rules are not always clear nor applied consistently.
Click to expand...

This is my understanding of the current situation. However, as Tranona says enforcement is best described as variable and patchy. Each Port Police station is almost a law unto itself with widely differing views as to what the law is and how it should be applied. If your clients have been given advice as a result of feedback from the Port Police office where their charter starts, then that is probably how that office is interpreting and applying the rules in their bit of Greece. It will not be easy to change that interpretation, no matter how wrong they may be in law.

That said, I've never heard of a requirement for professional crew unless the boat in question is large enough to fall outside the general leisure craft rules.
 
The Greek ministry outlines its requirements at http://www.yachting.yen.gr/en/

A firm offering bareboat charter was required pre July 2014 to check that the skipper and crew are competent. The default method was for a charter operation to ask for proof of competence. An ICC was adequate.

Every charter agreement had to be registered with the port police, and some authorities would then require proof that competence had been checked. Many charterers found the easiest way to deal with this was to insist on skippers having an ICC. Others proved to the authorities that their own skipper selection/supervision processes were adequate.

This changed July 2014. Charters still have to be registered. Reading the document above shows no requirement for proof of competence for crew of leisure vessels below 24M LOA being used or chartered.

Whether or not visiting craft have to carry proof of competence has never been clarified, so local authorities acted under their own inititatives.

Not very clear . . .
 
Last edited:
KellysEye said:
>Our experience of charter agents giving accurate information is disappointing

Bear in mind LateSail is the world's largest discounted charter company, they deal with over 700 operators around the world and have up to 10,000 boats on their site at any one time. So if anyone is likely to have been told about changes to qualifications in Greece they are the one. Simply because the Greek charter companies don't want crews turning up without the right qualification for obvious reasons .
Click to expand...

I fully appreciate your comments, but volume alone does not prove your point. There are many internet portals offering as large a range at cut prices. I would say we know Latesail well and had conversations with them last year on a specific charter, re a client's qualifications and they were both professional and thorough. My point was that those on the ground visiting Port Police offices will have first hand information as we do for the Turkish regulations, it's our business to know.

To the OP, we don't want to charter a yacht in Greece, simply one of our Turkish based charter yachts is visiting Greece for eight weeks this year and the client had been told by a friend that the Greeks wanted two certificated persons onboard. That has not been our experience, nor that of the single handed yachtsmen I'd guess!

Thank you all for your input.

Kevin
 
As has been said by others, how particular requirements are interpreted by local Port Police varies from place to place.

We check our boats out each week with a single skipper shown on the crew list and a copy of his license and commercial endorsement. All the others on board are listed as crew and we've never been asked for any further documents.

However, I believe that technically two competent persons are required under Greek law and the standard Greek charter agreement form, which you'll sign if you charter here, actually has that as one of its clauses. I know several charter companies in Kalamaki who insist on two qualified people (normally one of them can have Comp Crew or can simply sign a declaration of experience) and we require the same from anyone who charters our boats.

This is a requirement when you check out a yacht at the beginning of a charter but the only time I've ever heard of anyone being asked to show their certificates if they are just visiting ports is if they are involved in an accident or incident. In that case you might well be asked to provide evidence of competence.

If you have one person with a recognized skippers certificate and they are just going to be cruising around I wouldn't worry too much about it. Make sure you have appropriate insurance for Greece though as they will often check that.
 
Melody said:
As has been said by others, how particular requirements are interpreted by local Port Police varies from place to place.

We check our boats out each week with a single skipper shown on the crew list and a copy of his license and commercial endorsement. All the others on board are listed as crew and we've never been asked for any further documents.

However, I believe that technically two competent persons are required under Greek law and the standard Greek charter agreement form, which you'll sign if you charter here, actually has that as one of its clauses. I know several charter companies in Kalamaki who insist on two qualified people (normally one of them can have Comp Crew or can simply sign a declaration of experience) and we require the same from anyone who charters our boats.

This is a requirement when you check out a yacht at the beginning of a charter but the only time I've ever heard of anyone being asked to show their certificates if they are just visiting ports is if they are involved in an accident or incident. In that case you might well be asked to provide evidence of competence.

If you have one person with a recognized skippers certificate and they are just going to be cruising around I wouldn't worry too much about it. Make sure you have appropriate insurance for Greece though as they will often check that.
Click to expand...

I realise the question is mostly about chartering, but SWMBO and I both have ICCs and in the 10 years we've been in the Med (mostly in Greece) we have never been asked for them by anyone. We (ok then, I) ran us aground outside Kilini in May last year and the port police were involved. I was expecting to be asked for my ICC then but all they wanted was the boat registration and insurance (which is normal stuff).
 
Tony Cross said:
I realise the question is mostly about chartering, but SWMBO and I both have ICCs and in the 10 years we've been in the Med (mostly in Greece) we have never been asked for them by anyone. We (ok then, I) ran us aground outside Kilini in May last year and the port police were involved. I was expecting to be asked for my ICC then but all they wanted was the boat registration and insurance (which is normal stuff).
Click to expand...

I have been asked for my ICC twice, once in Preveza and once in Mourtos, both known at the time to be home to particularly officious PPs. Both occasions were more than five years ago, since when nobody has been interested.
 
The problem is that you probably do not understand the GREEK way of life. So here is an explanation.

Things that Make You Uniquely Greek
LifeCultureSocietyfolkloreby Philip Chrysopoulos - Apr 12, 2015
4999 34 Google +1 0 24 5171
02True Greeks have several characteristics and nuances that make them unique. Greeks indeed stand apart from other nationalities in many aspects of everyday life. To a foreigner, some of those may seem inconceivable, absurd even, but a Greek wouldn’t feel Greek unless he abides by certain “rules.”

So here are a few things (many belong to the past) that are said to make someone a real Greek or happen in Greece only!

1. Never eat dinner before 10:00 pm.

2. In your neighborhood, there is at least one street called “Eleftherios Venizelos street.” Even the Athens airport is called that.

3. You run several red lights to get to a coffee shop and then stare lazily at your frappe for three hours.

4. You travel abroad to escape from Greek attitudes for a while and during your trip you look for other Greeks to hang out with.

5. You applaud the pilot when landing.

6. You are not surprised when your 43-year-old buddy tells you he lives with his mom.

7. You consider it normal that someone gets a four-year university degree in 12 years.

8. You never have enough cash for necessities, but you always manage to find money for luxuries.

9. You hate public employees and call them lazy, but you dream of becoming one.

10. You go to church and pray to Jesus and the Virgin Mary on Sundays, but later you curse at them during the football game.

11. You light a cigarette before you enter the gym. And one as soon as you get out.

12. You wonder what the white lines are in pedestrian crossings.

13. You jog five kilometers but you take the elevator to the first floor.

14. You get in a traffic jam at 6:00 am on a Sunday.

15. You brag about what a womanizer your son is, but you claim your daughter is a virgin.

16. You wonder why people in the rest of the world don’t drink frappe.

17. You always honk to show the world you own a car.

18. When other drivers honk at you, you swear at them.

19. You paid 50,000 euros for your over-priced car, but you think the valet is a thief when he asks for 5 euros to park it.

20. You insist that the “evil eye” has been scientifically proven.

21. You believe that the rest of the world envies you for being Greek.

22. You are certain there is an international conspiracy to destroy your language.

23. You root for politicians even though you call them thieves in the next sentence.

24. You wonder how other countries survive when they don’t have kiosks in every corner.

25. You feel a burst of national pride when you hear the word “malakas” in a Hollywood movie.

- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/04 ... F8bQ2.dpuf
 
As with most "authority" in Greece, a smile. and chat about uk soccer ( preferably Liverpool or Man United) generally does the trick. The PP generally (must) have more to do than to mess about with usually meaningless bits of paper.
 
chrisgee said:
As with most "authority" in Greece, a smile. and chat about uk soccer ( preferably Liverpool or Man United) generally does the trick. The PP generally (must) have more to do than to mess about with usually meaningless bits of paper.
Click to expand...

Not just football. I went to the PP in Preveza to get my DEKPA stamp. It was a Sunday and the Japanese Grand Prix was on TV, watched by everyone in the office. They told me they were too busy to attend to me just then, come back tomorrow.
 
The ultimate and almost undefeatable PP trick is send the wife ! PP being normally used to woman doing as they are told cannot comprehend a lady captain presenting themselves in the office especially if half attractive .Of course with new technology and the massive growth in Internet this gives a whole new aspect to PP activities whilst not half heartedly checking meaningless bits of paper . Sadly or perhaps fortunately the world of instant communication between different PP offices and indeed often in the same office has passed them by and the resulting thousand different interpretations of which bits of meaningless papers we should have result in nothing more than a shoulder shrug or hand wave to be off so the PP can get back on with more important business .The one time you really don't want to involve the PP is when your likely to be at most in need of help from someone ,anything involving breakdown,grounding ,hitting anything whatsoever
Do not get in touch with PP unless there is absolutely no other options.This seems to be the one law that is applied universally by PP probably because of the potential for personal financial incentives following the consequences of doing any of the above .Having said all the above I find a good attitude with them goes a long way and they have at best had a kicking under austerity , a smile and a chat goes an awful long way .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top