Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Goldie, I was a bit puzzled by your comment till I noticed the year was 2104!
So was I !!!! If I edit it now, no one will understand.......
Greek law update
- Thread starter Glyka
- Start date
So was I !!!! If I edit it now, no one will understand.......
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
That would be nice Chris - I won't care by thenbut I doubt you'll be around to collect!
Ha ha!
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Tony - you only need to get your DEKPA signed once a month at most, so most requests "visit Port Police" by loudhaler - will not change. I only bother to get my Dekpa stamped once a year - no one seems to care. So the visit to port police will remain a bureaucratic mess, meaning you pay anything from €8 to €30 for a night, depending which port policeman you get. It's a wonder anyone goes at all!
So much for our hopes that port dues will be rolled into the new tax. I always thought it a bit on the hopeful side!
Miller12
New Member
That's good news. The Greeks really drove into the bog after 20+ years of this excruciating bureaucracy and tangle of inane and insane laws. Their public sector is overinflated and you can just smell the corruption in the air... It's a lovely country, but I'm glad they're chopping away the dead matter.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Long overdue and one of the causes of the troika being so hard on the Greek government. One has, though, to feel sorry for those about to become unemployed from what they were led to believe was an entirely secure job. In the UK the bureaucrat payroll has been cut, forced on local government by the central!!
Thanks though, Glyka, for the update - I've always used the local PP for info - the ones in Kiparissia always come down and pick one up, and the one in Poros, Kephalonia holds court in the local coffee-shop - all very relaxed and friendly and 9/10 times one is undercharged. Only in Kriti are they as hungry as barracuda..
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
Yes, I appreciate that not paying the tax will be a BIG risk, but if there are to be no more PP visits and a DEKPA stamp once a year who will bother walking to the PP office to pay harbour fees? I see that you mentioned they will still be payable, but with no need to visit the PP to check in/out or get a DEKPA stamp nobody will bother paying harbour fees at all I think?
Ravi
Well-Known Member
The situation you describe is pretty much what we have in the UK. It is just assumed that people will pay ashore at some point (e.g. at the harbour master or marina office). There are a few places with honesty boxes (?and cameras?) As long as people know where they need to go to pay, it should be workable.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
We visited several harbours in the Aegean last season in which the PP have been bypassed, substituting a full time harbourmaster who supervises berthing, looks after lazy lines, cleans up and is generally useful. Fees were mostly in line with what the PP would have charged plus 1 or 2 euros. This person comes to the boat and takes the money, a far more friendly system. I suspect that this idea will spread quite widely, the main drawback being that there is no rule nor limit to what they will charge, unlike the PP system.
Cardo
Well-Known Member
Whilst it may be frustrating to see things change, at least one has the choice to vote with their keel and simply anchor up nearby. This is what we liked about Italy on our way over, you could nearly always anchor up in the harbour if the marinas were taking the michael.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
That would be a far more sensible model than going into port police with all your paperwork each time and emerging 1/2 to 1 hour later wondering how they took so long over insurance and registration docs of yes, and writing up the old massive ledgers too in some places.
I presume when you paid you were paying €10 or around - or did they calculate on 2 days for 1 night- ie €20?
If only they just made it easy to pay and a known amount.....
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Chris there is a standard charge - slightly higher in some of the islands - and I'm sure no-one could possibly mind you correcting their maths?
The are quite a few anumerate PP.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
I don't think I can recall them trying that one on me anywhere. Our standard figure according to their prescribed calculation is €8.34 but in the ports with harbourmasters we mostly paid around €10, maybe a little more. This did include water and probably electricity although we rarely take it. When staying more than a couple of nights they invariably charge for one less, so no complaints. Balanced against that we spent a good few nights in ports where we were not charged at all. At Efstratios we were charged €1.47 for a night alongside - by the port police. It took them about half an hour to do all the paperwork.
DaveRo
Well-Known Member
We've never actually been charged on a midnight-to-midnight basis. But several times the PPman has pointed out that he should do that. The implication is that they're doing you a favour. Actually I think that even the PP think it's unjustifiable.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
I seem to have been the sucker who had all the 2 day charges! Hence I don't go near port police any more, though I am not happy doing that. €10 or €12 would be a perfectly fair charge.
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
The only time I can remember being charged for the two days when I stayed only one night was Lefkas town wall. Just looked at our expenses for 2 years in the Ionian and circumnavigating the Peloponese and we spent less than £100 on Port Fees in that time. Most places did not charge, although that was 2011-2012.
affinite
Well-Known Member
And there are the hybrids like Pothia on Kalymnos where the berthing master takes your lines, hooks up leccy and water AND then sends you for a walk right round the harbour to the Port Police
Cant wait to get back in 3 weeks
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
It's my understanding that the fee structure for staying on a public quay in Greece is as follows:
€0.30 per meter LOA as a one-off port entry fee.
€0.36 per meter LOA per 24-hour period spent in the port (midnight to midnight) if berthed stern-to
or
€0.45 per meter LOA per 24-hour period spent in the port (midnight to midnight) if berthed alongside
The total is also subject to VAT of course (23% currently).
Any other services (lazy lines, water, electricity etc.) can be charged at whatever they like.
Our experience has been that most PP count one night as one 24-hour period, but those that insist that two 24-periods have elapsed are correct. We have also never been charged at €0.45 per meter even in those few places where we berthed alongside.
My worry with Vyv's post is that the charges are likely to vary considerably from place to place and we'll have no idea what we might have to pay until we're already moored and the "harbour master" comes to collect it.
€0.30 per meter LOA as a one-off port entry fee.
€0.36 per meter LOA per 24-hour period spent in the port (midnight to midnight) if berthed stern-to
or
€0.45 per meter LOA per 24-hour period spent in the port (midnight to midnight) if berthed alongside
The total is also subject to VAT of course (23% currently).
Any other services (lazy lines, water, electricity etc.) can be charged at whatever they like.
Our experience has been that most PP count one night as one 24-hour period, but those that insist that two 24-periods have elapsed are correct. We have also never been charged at €0.45 per meter even in those few places where we berthed alongside.
My worry with Vyv's post is that the charges are likely to vary considerably from place to place and we'll have no idea what we might have to pay until we're already moored and the "harbour master" comes to collect it.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
There's an increasing trend for the local authority to take over the collection of harbour dues. For example, Gaios on Paxos has a lady who appears at about 7pm every day and collects about euro 1.50 per metre per night. This is just for mooring using your own anchor; water and electricity are available at extra cost via a card system if the bar that deals with it has any in stock.....
We operate on the principle of if we aren't asked to pay, then we don't. Most places don't ask, therefore we don't pay but I suspect that this will become increasingly rare as local councils figure out that they can raise some revenue by simply employing someone to walk down the quay once a day with a receipt book!
We operate on the principle of if we aren't asked to pay, then we don't. Most places don't ask, therefore we don't pay but I suspect that this will become increasingly rare as local councils figure out that they can raise some revenue by simply employing someone to walk down the quay once a day with a receipt book!
Cardo
Well-Known Member
€1.50/m for no services, and using your anchor? I think I'd be voting with my keel!
dslittle
Well-Known Member
I remember her - I was told that she did not have the authority to collect!!! I used to go to the PP Office where it was hit or miss if anyone was at home. The other port where a 'lady' collected dues was Platerias. She was often quite unpleasant (unless you were German). A bit of thread drift but I heard that Olga has become the Mayor there. Is that correct?