Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

[vasant]

Since the scrapping of the DEKPA there is now no where to formal record this. I have asked them numerous times and they came back eventually saying that on the E-TEPAI, you should edit the application name to the user and print it off. Unfortunately, Once an application has been paid, you cannot edit it. I have forcibly pointed out this stupidity, but can get no reply. I .

I would now use a letter from the owner, a good few boat stamps on it to grace it - how they love stamps!

tepai is BS . totally irrelevant. the app itself is stupid as you can't save the boat and just issue another month. you need to fill in everything every time

 

[Chris_Robb]

tepai is BS . totally irrelevant. the app itself is stupid as you can't save the boat and just issue another month. you need to fill in everything every time

An app like this should hold a lot of information about the nature and number of vessels cruising in Greek Waters. However as you have pointed out, if you make 3 applications in a year for the tax - you and your vessel will be listed 3 times.

From the point of extracting data, eg. : How many UK vessels sailed in Greece last year, banded between sizes and money extracted from them. The E-TEPAI may be fatally flawed and may be very difficult to extract sensible statisics (apart from Money) - any software guys like to comment!???

 

[Tony Cross]

An app like this should hold a lot of information about the nature and number of vessels cruising in Greek Waters. However as you have pointed out, if you make 3 applications in a year for the tax - you and your vessel will be listed 3 times.

From the point of extracting data, eg. : How many UK vessels sailed in Greece last year, banded between sizes and money extracted from them. The E-TEPAI may be fatally flawed and may be very difficult to extract sensible statisics (apart from Money) - any software guys like to comment!???

I don't know that the system was ever setup to be able to answer these kinds of questions. It really depends in what type of database the information is stored and how it's structured. TBH I think it's likely to be useless in any case because of the effect of COVID-19.

 

[Mistroma]

An app like this should hold a lot of information about the nature and number of vessels cruising in Greek Waters. However as you have pointed out, if you make 3 applications in a year for the tax - you and your vessel will be listed 3 times.

From the point of extracting data, eg. : How many UK vessels sailed in Greece last year, banded between sizes and money extracted from them. The E-TEPAI may be fatally flawed and may be very difficult to extract sensible statisics (apart from Money) - any software guys like to comment!???

I tested the "database" in a variety of ways and concluded it was basically just a flat-file or very close to it. It might have been stored as a relational database but most certainly was not normalised. It showed all the flaws you'd expect wrt accidental duplication and was happy to accept almost any rubbish you threw at it.

It had all the signs of being cobbled together by someone with virtually no expertise in database design. I doubt it was modelled and taken through subsequent steps such as logical and physical design. Probably just jumped straight to physical design.

Your assumption is likely to be correct about the difficulty in extracting information.

I've forgotten many of the obvious flaws I found in e-TEPAI but as an example, simply including spaces or punctuation produces different boatnames and reg. numbers.

Boatname: "My Boat", "My Boat ", "My.Boat"
Regnumber: "123456", "123456 ", " 123456"

Similar situation with many other fields. It is a certainty that you will end up with multiple records referring to the same boat.

The programmer made no effort to strip leading or trailing spaces and lack of a unique identifier means that typos with a "." result in a new record. Perhaps it has been tidied up since I "tested" it in the week following release.

I used to run into these issues regularly when people tried a DIY approach. I remember being asked about implementation of a small database about 20 years ago. It was a trivial system to record visits to site medical facilities. The client said that they had paid someone to enter 12 months worth of paper records into a spreadsheet. They wanted to save money and didn't ask me for advice.

I could even have given them a workable Access database by the next day just to collect data in a useful format. However, even that wasn't required as I could also have pointed out, almost immediately, that they didn't have much useful data.

e.g.
Appointments for a mister John Smith would have variations for everything and impossible to bring together as the history for one person.
Forename: John, J or JS
Surname: Smith or Smithe
DOB: 11/5/60 or 5/11/60
Department Production, Engineering

Almost every single record was completely unique and impossible to combine to get historical data for an individual. I did try to clean the data using a variety of queries but quickly gave up as it was useless. All their effort typing thousands of records into Excel was a complete waste of time, but they were keen to save money and avoid IT costs.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I tested the "database" in a variety of ways and concluded it was basically just a flat-file or very close to it. It might have been stored as a relational database but most certainly was not normalised. It showed all the flaws you'd expect wrt accidental duplication and was happy to accept almost any rubbish you threw at it.

It had all the signs of being cobbled together by someone with virtually no expertise in database design. I doubt it was modelled and taken through subsequent steps such as logical and physical design. Probably just jumped straight to physical design.

Your assumption is likely to be correct about the difficulty in extracting information.

I've forgotten many of the obvious flaws I found in e-TEPAI but as an example, simply including spaces or punctuation produces different boatnames and reg. numbers.

Boatname: "My Boat", "My Boat ", "My.Boat"
Regnumber: "123456", "123456 ", " 123456"

Similar situation with many other fields. It is a certainty that you will end up with multiple records referring to the same boat.

The programmer made no effort to strip leading or trailing spaces and lack of a unique identifier means that typos with a "." result in a new record. Perhaps it has been tidied up since I "tested" it in the week following release.

I used to run into these issues regularly when people tried a DIY approach. I remember being asked about implementation of a small database about 20 years ago. It was a trivial system to record visits to site medical facilities. The client said that they had paid someone to enter 12 months worth of paper records into a spreadsheet. They wanted to save money and didn't ask me for advice.

I could even have given them a workable Access database by the next day just to collect data in a useful format. However, even that wasn't required as I could also have pointed out, almost immediately, that they didn't have much useful data.

e.g.
Appointments for a mister John Smith would have variations for everything and impossible to bring together as the history for one person.
Forename: John, J or JS
Surname: Smith or Smithe
DOB: 11/5/60 or 5/11/60
Department Production, Engineering

Almost every single record was completely unique and impossible to combine to get historical data for an individual. I did try to clean the data using a variety of queries but quickly gave up as it was useless. All their effort typing thousands of records into Excel was a complete waste of time, but they were keen to save money and avoid IT costs.

So to explain some history then:
A year before the tax was launched they published what was going to be the manual form for a paper based tax. The tax entry form and print out is exactly the same.

From the point of view of enforcement, I cannot see how the Greek Port Police could type in a boat name and come up with any unique record with any certainty. It would be a good weeze to call your boat after a similar size boat, where you know that owner had paid the E-TEPAI!

So yes - I think it is clearly a flat file and that is why they wont/can't share statistics. I know the Ministry of Tourism was very keen to get their hands on this info - for sensible reasons.......

So to date, they have not replied to my emails - that normally means they cannot, no-one will say No we cannot do it!!!!

 

[ITH]

Blocked accounts - an explanation.
E-TEPAI - Blocked accounts
Many of you have had issues with blocked accounts.
This occurs if you have 11 unsuccessful attempts to login - your account is automatically locked.
This link will take you to the instructions (rather lengthy) as to how to unblock the account. I have not tried it as I have not had a blocked account
https://www.aade.gr/dl_assets/etepai/etepai_unblock_en.pdf
Working through the instructions above is a mind bender.
Just go to the normal login and choose English.
On the login screen click on reset password (at the bottom) and fill in the reset password screen with your email and submit.
Your account should now be unblocked.
You will receive an Email - if you want to change your password then follow the instructions to change.
Just don't do more than 11 attempts to get in!

If RTboss is reading - could you go and try it!

Chris, I am one of 'blocked' brigade. I was trying to update last year's eTepai and got as far as completing the information - and printing off a temporarily stored application (with application number). When I next tried to access the account I received a 'wrong password' message. After changing the password an d signing in again I got the 'blocked account' message. Have tried several times (I think less than 11!) to get access, still no joy. Has anybody else found ways of unblocking the account?

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Chris, I am one of 'blocked' brigade. I was trying to update last year's eTepai and got as far as completing the information - and printing off a temporarily stored application (with application number). When I next tried to access the account I received a 'wrong password' message. After changing the password an d signing in again I got the 'blocked account' message. Have tried several times (I think less than 11!) to get access, still no joy. Has anybody else found ways of unblocking the account?

No, I pay at the port police office, bloody joke.

 

[Norman_E]

So what do I have to do if I want to go for one night into Kastellorizon, just in order to clear out of Turkey and back in again so as to get another five years in Turkey.

 

[sailaboutvic]

So what do I have to do if I want to go for one night into Kastellorizon, just in order to clear out of Turkey and back in again so as to get another five years in Turkey.

By right you have to pay a month tax and depending of boat size it could be Justin over 30 e or over 100e you probably be better off to do the trip in th begin of the month and have a month in Greece .
Can you sail to Greece at the moment ? I tho Turkey was ban for now .

 

[Norman_E]

Thank you. I am not in Turkey now and don't have to do it this year. I have zero interest in going to the Greek islands after the bad experiences I have had. If I can fix it to sail out, anchor overnight somewhere without going ashore and then go back to Turkey I will, otherwise I might just go to Northern Cyprus next year.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Chris, I am one of 'blocked' brigade. I was trying to update last year's eTepai and got as far as completing the information - and printing off a temporarily stored application (with application number). When I next tried to access the account I received a 'wrong password' message. After changing the password an d signing in again I got the 'blocked account' message. Have tried several times (I think less than 11!) to get access, still no joy. Has anybody else found ways of unblocking the account?

What are you editing your last year's application..... make a new application on your account.

Follow my instructions above and get in to your account. If you know your password, just don't do the change, but don't try 11 more times.

Once in make a new application and all will become clear.

When paying enter just the first 20 digits of the code. Note that the last digits are the amount of money in cents.

Do not be helpful and and boat name or anything. Not even a space. If you do it will be rejected.

Let me know how you get on.

 

[Chris_Robb]

So to explain some history then:
A year before the tax was launched they published what was going to be the manual form for a paper based tax. The tax entry form and print out is exactly the same.

From the point of view of enforcement, I cannot see how the Greek Port Police could type in a boat name and come up with any unique record with any certainty. It would be a good weeze to call your boat after a similar size boat, where you know that owner had paid the E-TEPAI!

So yes - I think it is clearly a flat file and that is why they wont/can't share statistics. I know the Ministry of Tourism was very keen to get their hands on this info - for sensible reasons.......

So to date, they have not replied to my emails - that normally means they cannot, no-one will say No we cannot do it!!!!

Finally got my first statistic from the system. There are 4231 UK flagged yachts in Greece last year......who paid.

 

[ITH]

What are you editing your last year's application..... make a new application on your account.

Follow my instructions above and get in to your account. If you know your password, just don't do the change, but don't try 11 more times.

Once in make a new application and all will become clear.

When paying enter just the first 20 digits of the code. Note that the last digits are the amount of money in cents.

Do not be helpful and and boat name or anything. Not even a space. If you do it will be rejected.

Let me know how you get on.

Thanks Chris; followed instructions again, but alas the system still decrees that I remain on the naughty step, and I cannot unlock my account to make a new application. ?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Thanks Chris; followed instructions again, but alas the system still decrees that I remain on the naughty step, and I cannot unlock my account to make a new application. ?

Hi - it was very straight forward for the few I did for CA members - so I could have a goo at it if you want - just need you to PM me your log in details and current password - I will delete it of course. If I have to change the password - perhaps you can give me your next choice - you will get the email and you will need to forward it to me. I will give you my email address - send your email details on the PM - easier to use than messaging!

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks Chris; followed instructions again, but alas the system still decrees that I remain on the naughty step, and I cannot unlock my account to make a new application. ?

Did you try my suggestion in PM, it used to work but system might have been updated? It is a zero risk option as it is a new account and not linked to your existing account. It will fail if the system has been fixed because it will say the boat already exists or it will see it as a new boat and let you proceed.

 

[De.windhoos]

HELP! I either get wrong password or wrong email/ID error message when trying to login. I figured out that the email field is case sensitive so it sees Myemail@whatever.com as a different account from myemail@whatever.com but what about the passport field?
I also reset my password on the all lowercases email address but when trying to use the new password I still get “wrong password” message.

 

[Tony Cross]

HELP! I either get wrong password or wrong email/ID error message when trying to login. I figured out that the email field is case sensitive so it sees Myemail@whatever.com as a different account from myemail@whatever.com but what about the passport field?
I also reset my password on the all lowercases email address but when trying to use the new password I still get “wrong password” message.

Passwords in ANY system are case sensitive.....

 

[Chris_Robb]

Passwords in ANY system are case sensitive.....

User names are Never case sensitive. I will check though.
The document number is your passport number which for the UK in numeric, therefore no issues of upper and lower case.
Pm me, if you continue to get problems, your email address (already done)
Your password
Your passport number.

Hasr it come up with account locked? Die to too many attempts?

 

[De.windhoos]

User names are Never case sensitive. I will check though.
The document number is your passport number which for the UK in numeric, therefore no issues of upper and lower case.
Pm me, if you continue to get problems, your email address (already done)
Your password
Your passport number.

Hasr it come up with account locked? Die to too many attempts?

Dutch ID’s are alphanumeric I know that usernames are not supposed to be case sensitive but I get a different error when using a capital in my email address vs everything in lowercase
I haven’t received an “account locked” msg yet. I stopped in time. I guess I’m at 9th attempt

 

[Chris_Robb]

Dutch ID’s are alphanumeric I know that usernames are not supposed to be case sensitive but I get a different error when using a capital in my email address vs everything in lowercase
I haven’t received an “account locked” msg yet. I stopped in time. I guess I’m at 9th attempt

PM sent