Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

[duncan99210]

How do I sell a 14.3-metre boat to myself, change its name and sell myself the shorter new name boat?
I do have an SSR for a 11.9 m boat that is not in Greece? in fact its only in my imagination. My old Sunfast 39

serious question

Just go to the MCA website and register your "new" boat with its " correct" length. Remove old SSR numbers, replace with new. Obtain new DEKPA and Robert is your mother's brother. All fine except that eventually someone will clock your 14m boat is somewhat longer than the registration papers. All the more likely as you increasingly find port authorities requiring the SSR documents to base their charges on.....

 

[crisjones]

This is really going to depend on what your last new DEKPA says now ,
if you didn't have the foresight to sorted it before hand ,
And if has they say it's all computer listed now , you going to have a problem .
Wink wink if you know what I mean .

Well we managed to get from Crete, through the Aegean, around the Peloponese and all the way up the Ionian earlier this year without needing to get the new DEKPA. So if we decide to return to Greece next summer we will just do a normal check-in and get a new DEKPA at the same time, I will just have to check how long we are but my tape measure is very difficult to read cos all the numbers are very worn!!!

 

[NornaBiron]

Well we managed to get from Crete, through the Aegean, around the Peloponese and all the way up the Ionian earlier this year without needing to get the new DEKPA. So if we decide to return to Greece next summer we will just do a normal check-in and get a new DEKPA at the same time, I will just have to check how long we are but my tape measure is very difficult to read cos all the numbers are very worn!!!

We did too, and we went back to Greece in September. Made sure we got out by the 26th September deadline for a new DEKPA though!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Well we managed to get from Crete, through the Aegean, around the Peloponese and all the way up the Ionian earlier this year without needing to get the new DEKPA. So if we decide to return to Greece next summer we will just do a normal check-in and get a new DEKPA at the same time, I will just have to check how long we are but my tape measure is very difficult to read cos all the numbers are very worn!!!

Oh it's you who I borrow my tape measure to and not got it back . .
I sorted my problem in advances just in case I return back and the tax reared its head .

 

[crisjones]

Oh it's you who I borrow my tape measure to and not got it back . .
I sorted my problem in advances just in case I return back and the tax reared its head .

Vic,
You should start charging people to borrow your special "Greek Tax" tape measure.

 

[Yngmar]

When I bought the boat in 2015, I had counted on visiting the med. I've been keeping an eye on things ever since, and it got a little worse every year. Now we're at the door (Algarve), we might just turn the other way instead. Croatia and Greece were both destinations we had in mind, but all of this is a bit off-putting for us cruisers on a budget, especially with a boat just over 12m.

 

[sailaboutvic]

When I bought the boat in 2015, I had counted on visiting the med. I've been keeping an eye on things ever since, and it got a little worse every year. Now we're at the door (Algarve), we might just turn the other way instead. Croatia and Greece were both destinations we had in mind, but all of this is a bit off-putting for us cruisers on a budget, especially with a boat just over 12m.

I wouldn't let it put you off , there ways and means around some things , I can tell you for a fact , there people who been cruising around Greece for years and never had a DEKPA, some how I don't think this tax is going to bothered them , fines or no fines , I mean they have to catch you first before they can fine you , plus there other ways to keep the taxes cost down.

 

[sailaboutvic]

When I bought the boat in 2015, I had counted on visiting the med. I've been keeping an eye on things ever since, and it got a little worse every year. Now we're at the door (Algarve), we might just turn the other way instead. Croatia and Greece were both destinations we had in mind, but all of this is a bit off-putting for us cruisers on a budget, especially with a boat just over 12m.

It's not any better the other side of the pond , we have many friend who are cruising over there and they are for ever complaining, if it's not thief , it boat boys , when ashore you looking apoud easy rich targets .
Visa for getting into country , regulation we not heard off the list goes on , plus if you need to get back home flights are a lot cheaper from western/eastern Europe.
Just one word of warning , you still have to get pass southern Spain before finding good cruising grounds .
And the Med isn't just Greece , that the mistake many make , they get to Greece and there they stay .

 

[stranded]

I wouldn't let it put you off , there ways and means around some things , I can tell you for a fact , there people who been cruising around Greece for years and never had a DEKPA, some how I don't think this tax is going to bothered them , fines or no fines , I mean they have to catch you first before they can fine you , plus there other ways to keep the taxes cost down.

Ah, tax dodgers - delightful.

 

[whiteoaks7]

To the best of my knowledge no high officials in the Greek Ministry of Shipping frequent this forum, so don't hold your breath for an answer. Do you seriously think that if Chris could answer what you ask he wouldn't already have done so? I can assure you he'd be delighted to be so privy to what's going on.

If Chris feels annoyed by my asking I'm sure he could speak for himself. Seems you have sore corns.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Ah, tax dodgers - delightful.

oh do me a favour .
I do love these people who never left some where without paying , or avoided being around when they know someone coming to collet .
would I avoid paying 25€ for being on a quay no water or power using my own tackle , YES ,
if knocking off a few cm of my LOL so not to pay and extra 8€ a day that make me a tax Dogger , I won't be losing any sleep over it , but at less I not lying to myself of anyone here and trying to make myself look some thing I not .

 

[macd]

If Chris feels annoyed by my asking I'm sure he could speak for himself. Seems you have sore corns.

No trouble with corns, you'll be glad to hear. Just an allergy to inane questions.

 

[Chris_Robb]

If Chris feels annoyed by my asking I'm sure he could speak for himself. Seems you have sore corns.

No - I don't feel annoyed. I just feel so frustrated that our members are getting answer on Croatia but the Greeks just promise to come back but never do. They don't answer the phone half the time - perhaps I had better do number withheld.... I can't help feeling that I annoyed some in the Min of Finance over their climb down on Temporary Import of non EU yachts.:disgust:

Edit: We are not going to know the details of how they will collect the tax until after it has been passed back to the Min of Shipping for implementation. Initially the rumours were that the PP had refused to get involved..... but with the Dekpa being introduced I suspect they are over that one.

Introduction? Could be as early as Jan 1, but I would expect April1st :ambivalence:

 

[crisjones]

Ah, tax dodgers - delightful.

I thought it was always the same amongst yachties - if you could get away without paying then that is what you did ???

I am not saying it is right, but that is the way of the world - if you can avoid paying by some trickery or other then that is what most people will choose to do.

There are far more richer people than me that have dodged their tax liabilities by employing highly paid advisors to avoid their true obligations so I have no qualmns at all about dodging a few hundred euros..

Governments the world over would be better targetting the "serious" tax avoiders or tax dodgers, us little guys dodging a few euros are small fry.

Unfortunately most of the guys who are dodging huge amounts of tax are also supporting their own political represantatives entirely for their own reasons and not for the good of the rest of us. So nothing is going to change any time soon and I do not feel guilty for taking any little advantage that I can.
If you want to take the moral high ground then that is your choice, I long ago realised that "if you can't beat them, join them" - your choice, but not mine!!

 

[Resolution]

I thought it was always the same amongst yachties - if you could get away without paying then that is what you did ???

I am not saying it is right, but that is the way of the world - if you can avoid paying by some trickery or other then that is what most people will choose to do.

There are far more richer people than me that have dodged their tax liabilities by employing highly paid advisors to avoid their true obligations so I have no qualmns at all about dodging a few hundred euros..

Governments the world over would be better targetting the "serious" tax avoiders or tax dodgers, us little guys dodging a few euros are small fry.

Unfortunately most of the guys who are dodging huge amounts of tax are also supporting their own political represantatives entirely for their own reasons and not for the good of the rest of us. So nothing is going to change any time soon and I do not feel guilty for taking any little advantage that I can.
If you want to take the moral high ground then that is your choice, I long ago realised that "if you can't beat them, join them" - your choice, but not mine!!

When I trained as an accountant many moons ago we were taught a very clear distinction between "Avoidance " and "Evasion". Avoidance was using any legal route to minimise the tax one became liable to pay. Every sensible person should do this. Evasion was simply not paying what was legally due. That's crooked and wrong under any moral or legal code.
Now you are really confusing me by introducing a third category, "Dodgers".

 

[sailaboutvic]

after more years then I like to remember cruising , I not yet come across anyone who if he had the chance to not pay unreasonable cost and to find away to at the very less cut that cost .

The only high and mighty once I have come across you says they wouldn't are normally found places like on forum .
In reality you would normally find the same people in the front of the queue with their short tape measure in hand .
I have lost count the amount of time I stools behind people in Marina while the question ask , what you lol , replying it's a few cm less then what it was to get a lower rate charge .
I wonder how many of us liveaboard tells the tax man their are out of the country more then 180 days in fear of losing their personal tax alowances or there entitlement to get free treatment , taken a guest very few if any ?.
Actually I do as we have no option .
How many stay in a country more then the 183 and not apply for residence so not to pay Import due on there boat and tax on any investment .?
How many , me included, live on our anchor so not to pay mooring charges which also involve tax ?.
That sums it up , we are a community of tax dodgers .

 

[stranded]

oh do me a favour .
I do love these people who never left some where without paying , or avoided being around when they know someone coming to collet .
would I avoid paying 25€ for being on a quay no water or power using my own tackle , YES ,
if knocking off a few cm of my LOL so not to pay and extra 8€ a day that make me a tax Dogger , I won't be losing any sleep over it , but at less I not lying to myself of anyone here and trying to make myself look some thing I not .

No, never have done that Vic, and frankly, because I so respect and value your opinions here, I am bloody disappointed to learn that you have. It’s dishonest and immoral, and I don’t accept that it is normal. I prefer to think that more normal are the Brit couple who overnighted on the pontoon at Laranjeiras on the Guadiana last month and left their mooring fee with us because they had to leave before the money man came round. I presume had you been us you would just have pocketed it.

 

[sailaboutvic]

No, never have done that Vic, and frankly, because I so respect and value your opinions here, I am bloody disappointed to learn that you have. It’s dishonest and immoral, and I don’t accept that it is normal. I prefer to think that more normal are the Brit couple who overnighted on the pontoon at Laranjeiras on the Guadiana last month and left their mooring fee with us because they had to leave before the money man came round. I presume had you been us you would just have pocketed it.

I not met anyone in my long life that hasn't been dishonest at some point in his life , maybe your the first .
As for leaving a public town wall without paying money to people who have no right to the money , given receipt from book you can buy in any shop or at time refusing to give receipt I have no problem with that or doing it again .

As to the last part of your posting , no I wouldn't had pocket it , but I also wouldn't had taken it off them in the first place .
It's the collectors job to collect the fee , has a fellow cruiser it's not my Responsibility to collected on his behalf .

I think as time goes by and you cruise away from Marina , you could be in for a surprise ,
Having to paying money to people who charge you for taken your rope , or paying for anchoring to someone who decide your a nice little earner to do so ,
of cause if you refuse or leave before they turn up , you could be labelled dishonest.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Just go to the MCA website and register your "new" boat with its " correct" length. Remove old SSR numbers, replace with new. Obtain new DEKPA and Robert is your mother's brother. All fine except that eventually someone will clock your 14m boat is somewhat longer than the registration papers. All the more likely as you increasingly find port authorities requiring the SSR documents to base their charges on.....

I think that part would be easy, as it is to get an SSR number IMO the dificult part would be the yachts length on the Insurance papers .

 

[Tranona]

I think that part would be easy, as it is to get an SSR number IMO the dificult part would be the yachts length on the Insurance papers .

The insurer puts on whatever figure you fill in on the proposal form. Just make sure it is the same as on any other documents, but particularly the registration document.