Greek Charters - ICC for Skipper AND 1stMate?

[Paddy_N_Murphy]

I saw a letter in the Yachting World this month stating that there is now a requirement for any Charterers in Greece to now have the Skipper and 1st Mate ICC'd.

Now I know this is a subject (ICC's / Greece) that has been debated a lot over the years on the forum. Is there any more to this story?

Any validity ?

I think it is a serious shot in the foot to be honest if true, and will mean I wouldn't / couldn't charter there anymore.

Whilst I dont' take total donkeys with me, they have learnt lots over the years, I know for a fact they would not be looking to take the necessaries to get ICC'd.

 

[Paul_G]

When I chartered out of Lefkas this year I was asked for the "papers" for a second "captain". Fortunately partner and son both have comp crew and this was quite acceptable.

P

 

[mjcoon]

When I chartered out of Lefkas this year I was asked for the "papers" for a second "captain". Fortunately partner and son both have comp crew and this was quite acceptable.

Perhaps I should start taking my 40-year-old dinghy certificate (the only "papers" I have)...

Mike.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Sail in Turkey then. The charter companies who operate there let any old muppet sail, including me.

 

[Tranona]

The situation varies. The law requires only that the skipper must demonstrate competence, but does not prescribe how this competence can be demonstrated. The decision as to what is acceptable is made by the Port Police at the location where the charter permit is issued, so inevitably there is some variability - even in the same location over time. I chartered for 12 consecutive years in Corfu, sometimes 3 times a year (mostly using my own boat which was a registered charter boat) and the evidence required varied from a little card from a charter operator, to yacht club membership card to ICC, and even on one occasion being required to report in person to the main office in the port with all my documents. Only asked for "mate" qualification once, satisfied by my wife's club membership card.

In recent years there has been pressure to tighten up and be more uniform, but there are still many "arrangements" in place between operators and the authorities that are at variance with the norm, so your best guidance is from the operator. The requirement for a "qualified" mate is less common, but it might just as easily be a requirement of the operator's insurer.

 

[AMCD300]

Sounds a bit excessive to me.

What happens if one wanted to charter a small yacht to sail single-handed...are they going to say you can't take a boat out on your own? No different to having others on board who are not CC or ICC qualified.

 

[KellysEye]

>I saw a letter in the Yachting World this month stating that there is now a requirement for any Charterers in Greece to now have the Skipper and 1st Mate ICC'd.

That's a new one, it used to be ICC or equivalent and they asked the experience of another crew member. It would be checking with the charter company if going there.

Turkey and Croatia need an ICC or equivalent and Croatia aslo needs a VHF licence.

 

[iain789]

I chartered in Australia this year, and they wanted to see my ICC and experience, and also the 'mates'. Mate (my daughter) crews for me frequently on the Clyde, but no certificates, so they took us out for a test sail (a couple of hours, so not a formality) before they would let us take the boat away.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I saw a letter in the Yachting World this month stating that there is now a requirement for any Charterers in Greece to now have the Skipper and 1st Mate ICC'd.

People say this kind of thing all the time and it always turns out to be nonsense. Unless they quoted something official you can verify (and no doubt they didn't) I'd say very unlikely to be true.

All but 20-odd nations in the world don't give their residents ICCs so it would be rather odd if Greece had decided to prevent 90pc of the world from hiring boats in their country. (Especially since, IIRC, Greece is one of the long list of countries that doesn't issue ICC to it's own residents - banning their own citizens from hiring sailing boats??? Plausible?)

Try calling Sail Ionian (http://www.sailionian.com/?gclid=CKiigbKwvbMCFW3MtAodOS0A5A) and asking them if Greece has taken this action?

 

[chrishelen]

We bareboated on a bav 49 in Corfu in September and they were quite strict. took copies of my certs (YM and powerboat 2) and took them to the port police before we could get on the boat.

my crew of novices (my 4 bros) had never sailed before and i had to nominate my brother as mate, and he was promted to tell porkies about his sailing abilities by the office crew before they would let us go onto the boat.

at one point i got a bit worried that they we going to make us hire a mate at 100 euros a day.

so yes you do need a bit of paper and a mate with a bit of paper to be on the safe side.

 

[prv]

Croatia aslo needs a VHF licence.

That's interesting. My parents do a Med charter most years, and seem to be sticking to Croatia these days. They both have ICCs, acquired via a brief test with a UK school a couple of years ago, but neither has a VHF certificate (which of course they should, as they use the radio on the boat in the UK far more than I do, but hey ho.)

Just another case of requirements on the ground varying from the theory, I suppose.

Apparently Croatia is now becoming popular with Russians, most of whom simply purchase an ICC by mail-order from a company in Moscow.

Pete

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

so yes you do need a bit of paper and a mate with a bit of paper to be on the safe side.

Are you sure that wasn't just the individual local port Police and/or one Charter firm?

I've given up checking these myths but I'd willing to bet that 5 minutes on the phone will find a bareboat charter in Greece with nothing on paper at all.

Apparently Croatia is now becoming popular with Russians, most of whom simply purchase an ICC by mail-order from a company in Moscow.

Just to be clear there's no need an ICC for Croatia. There's a massive list of alternatives here:

http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/novo-TABLICA ENGLISHMoU (2) 4_12.pdf

 

[maxi77]

Are you sure that wasn't just the individual local port Police and/or one Charter firm?

I've given up checking these myths but I'd willing to bet that 5 minutes on the phone will find a bareboat charter in Greece with nothing on paper at all.



Just to be clear there's no need an ICC for Croatia. There's a massive list of alternatives which used to be here:

http://www.mmpi.hr/UserDocsImages/TABLICA MoU 3_11_eng.pdf

(I can't be bothered to find where it is now.)

You don't happen to have that in English otherwise for me it could be a takeaway menu

 

[Tranona]

You don't happen to have that in English otherwise for me it could be a takeaway menu

Don't bother. If you google sailing qualifications in Croatia you can get a number of sources with the extensive list of acceptable qualifications. Despite what friend Toad implies, nobody has suggested an ICC is compulsory. Croatian law requires that a skipper of a Croatian flagged boat must be "competent" and the ministry has a long list of the qualifications from all round the world that it accepts as evidence of competence, which as well as the RYA Day Skipper also includes the ICC, but the list does (or did last time I looked) have some inconsistencies of equivalence. The law also allows the local harbour master to assess individuals for competence in the absence of a formal qualification.

Charter boats in Croatia are Croatian flagged so it follows that operators require evidence of qualifications before taking a booking, although some may take a chance that the charterer will be able to get the local harbour master approval. For most Europeans this does not present a problem because their state licence is usually on the approved list, but many will have an ICC as well. Less easy for a British person as we have no compulsory licence, so for many having an ICC is the only way they can charter in Croatia without potential hassle. If they have a Day Skipper or above they can have an ICC anyway so it amounts to the same thing, except that it is potentially "easier" to get an ICC than going through the whole Day Skipper.

In many ways there is no difference in Greece except that there is no prescriptive list of acceptable qualifications, although when you look at the examples of acceptable qualifications on the various operators' websites you find the qualifications listed are also found on the Croatian list and include the ICC. The other difference, as I pointed out earlier is that application of the law is very variable, but as you will see from people posting here it is becoming more common for the qualification requirement to be enforced by Port Police at the time of issuing the charter permit.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Despite what friend Toad implies, nobody has suggested an ICC is compulsory.

<sigh>

Croatia is different and an ICC is needed for a visitor to get a cruising permit

However, the advice is that it is prudent to have an ICC, and compulsory if you want to enter the major European Inland Waterways. As noted above, you will definitely need it if you go to Croatia

Try a search, it took me 60 seconds to find and copy these these, there are loads more on the first results page. That's without even trying.

In many ways there is no difference in Greece

In Greece you can Charter with no paperwork at all. Absoluteley nothing. Phone Sail Ionian and ask them. I'm sure you can find Port Authorities and Companies that do require something, but I've never needed anything to Charter in Greece, EVER. Maybe that changed this year, but I doubt it. The fake rumours will continue, of course.

 

[prv]

Apparently Croatia is now becoming popular with Russians, most of whom simply purchase an ICC by mail-order from a company in Moscow.

Just to be clear there's no need an ICC for Croatia. There's a massive list of alternatives

Sure, but presumably your average wealthy Russian who has never set foot on a boat before finds an ICC the most convenient one to "obtain".

Pete

 

[Tranona]

<sigh>


In Greece you can Charter with no paperwork at all. Absoluteley nothing. Phone Sail Ionian and ask them. I'm sure you can find Port Authorities and Companies that do require something, but I've never needed anything to Charter in Greece, EVER. Maybe that changed this year, but I doubt it. The fake rumours will continue, of course.

You can keep on repeating this all you like but this is not the majority experience of people who charter in Greece as many posts here show. It is simply not true. You need a charter permit stamped by the Port Police. I am well aware and have repeated over and over again that practice is variable about what is required to get the permit and that arrangements exist in the way that you describe. Indeed if you actually read what I said I made that very point. Just because you claim never to have been asked for any qualifications that does not mean it is the norm and it is not "fake rumours" that it is normal for qualifications to be required before you can get a charter permit.

So if people are asking for advice it is better to give them sound advice on what really happens rather than your claptrap.

That advice which I and others, including most of the charter operators have clearly given is to check with the operator as to what is required to charter one of their boats.

I know you have difficulty in anything that requires a modicum of intellectual ability to understand, but it is always worth trying to put it into words simple enough for you to get some idea.

BTW I thought you had given up being troll (on your own admission) but seems like trolls are like crack addicts - once they get a taste they can't keep away.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

You can charter in Turkey without any qualifications. Try Sunscape/Seafarer.

 

[akyaka]

You can charter in Turkey without any qualifications. Try Sunscape/Seafarer.

Try saying that if you are stopped by the authorities . Turkish people have to have passed an exam equivalent to ICC to own or charter.

 

[cgull]

I saw a letter in the Yachting World this month stating that there is now a requirement for any Charterers in Greece to now have the Skipper and 1st Mate ICC'd.

Now I know this is a subject (ICC's / Greece) that has been debated a lot over the years on the forum. Is there any more to this story?

Any validity ?

I think it is a serious shot in the foot to be honest if true, and will mean I wouldn't / couldn't charter there anymore.

Whilst I dont' take total donkeys with me, they have learnt lots over the years, I know for a fact they would not be looking to take the necessaries to get ICC'd.

Why dont Charterers take the simple route? Do RYA Quals to Coastal Skipper and/or YM offshore etc . You can then charter with confidence anywhere in the world as far as i know, it works well for me.