Greece - Time to go maybe

[grafozz]

happy ? you bet .

Every one is talking bout the " problems " but it is still a welcoming and warm country , there are 5k + English on this Island and most have adopted shrugged shoulders attitude and just carried on and enjoyed life , there is a new found competitive pricing and it is such a beautiful place to sail .
Friends have wondered why you would want to sail anywhere else ?
It is still Greece , come and enjoy it .

 

[Davy_S]

 

[macd]

Just sparing a thought for all you guys who have boats and or are living aboard in Greece.

What is the political climate like there, is it time to go maybe or...

Would you get a sense of the UK political climate by putting into Padstow harbour? Or Tobermorey? What on earth have you been reading?

 

[grafozz]

really !

+ 1

 

[Ocean Safari]

Sitting at anchor as I type in Pethi on Symi, taverna laying out tables, small supermarket stocked up with fresh fruit and veg, temp is around 24 at 9.15am................So no don't come, it's all doom and gloom. Stay at home in the comforting drizzle.

Pushing rain here all day, think I might just try your remedy soon.

 

[catmandoo]

We have just made a short cruise to the northern Dodecanese, Arki, Lipsi, Patmos, Fournoi, Samos and back to Leros. It is early in the season and many tavernas have yet to open but in many of them there are the usual pre-season activities, painting, replacing sun screens, etc. Where they were open the welcome was as warm as usual and prices are by no means excessive. In the supermarkets we have certainly not noticed a big price hike compared with last year.

Some Greek boat owners have told us of the massive taxes they are being asked to pay but there is no resentment of visitors. One told us that Greece is marvellous for foreigners but not for the Greeks. Seems to sum it up.

Only 16% VAT in Dodecanese . Biggest decision was whether to accept 25% discount for keeping boat in water until March . Much much cheaper than Turkey - catamaran friendly too ( if your cat has beam less than 4.6 m then no 50% surcharge )
People very friendly , good food , plenty beer temperature yesterday in cabin was 31 degrees Oh! the strain of making decisions.

Unfortunately now back in Scotland temp 7 degrees but drooling over going back in June . can't wait

 

[jimbaerselman]

Were now tied to the Quay in Katakalon, wonderful weather, only two other yachts here (it is early in the season). If you want water and electricity it is 10 euros a night, otherwise free, people are very friendly, looking forward to the rest of the Peloponese. Think this is as good a time as any to visit Greece

Saw your boat in Kiparrissia this Sunday morning . . . and rattled your cage (quietly, in case you were lying in!)

Yialova, in Navarino Bay, is wide awake, seems not to have noticed any problems. Do the walk up to the castle in the north of Navarino bay; magic at this time of the year with all the wild flowers in full bloom. Ignore the "no entry" sign - just check no stones are going to fall on your head. Pylos is in it's busy spring farming mode, cafes in the square pretty full in the evenings. Finikounda has launched most of its fishing boats, and is dusting out its tavernas. All looks very normal so far. But the Peloponese west coast is very much an exporting farming community, owning their own land, and lots of bartering, so hardly touched by financial matters.

 

[fliti]

You may want to take a look at today's editorial in the FT. It game plans a greek exit from the euro, which is now being openly discussed in eurocrat and banking circles. Among other likely measures would be the nationalisation of the banks, forced conversion of any balances held with them to new, collapsing drachma and most important of all, closure of borders to secure against capital flight. No doubt, one of the first ways greeks will seek to get their assets out will be in small boats.

 

[affinite]

Greece is in uncharted territory. I think its just too simple to say, "the sun is shining, the pound/euro exchange rate is great, the tavernas are opening here and ..........". Events in Athens and Brussels may seem a world away but thats where Greeces future is being shaped.

No one seems to know what will happen next if the Greeks have to leave the euro. Remember, its only a few years ago that this country was run by the military. Maybe unlikely, but with no political party or coalition able to form a government, a return to those days cant be ruled out.

I keep my boat in Greece because I love the country and the Greek people but I do wonder if I should hand over the second installment of my annual marina contract fee just yet. (Before anyone else says it, I know that my attitude, as a creditor of Greece, is an example of the reason Greece is getting deeper and deeper into this mess but, like most Greeks, Im thinking of number one.

With a big portion of my life savings currently tied up in a Greek marina and another portion ashore in a Preveza boatyard, the question "Is it time to get out of Greece" really isnt a silly one.

 

[jordanbasset]

Saw your boat in Kiparrissia this Sunday morning . . . and rattled your cage (quietly, in case you were lying in!)

Yialova, in Navarino Bay, is wide awake, seems not to have noticed any problems. Do the walk up to the castle in the north of Navarino bay; magic at this time of the year with all the wild flowers in full bloom. Ignore the "no entry" sign - just check no stones are going to fall on your head. Pylos is in it's busy spring farming mode, cafes in the square pretty full in the evenings. Finikounda has launched most of its fishing boats, and is dusting out its tavernas. All looks very normal so far. But the Peloponese west coast is very much an exporting farming community, owning their own land, and lots of bartering, so hardly touched by financial matters.

Hi Jim, we were doing the walk up to the castle, wonderful views, sorry we missed you. We have just arrived in Pylos, will be here a few days. Please feel free to drop in , you will be most welcome. PM me if you wish a time/date or take potluck, understand if you are busy
Best wishes Neil and Cathy (J.B.)

 

[little_roundtop]

Greece is in uncharted territory. I think its just too simple to say, "the sun is shining, the pound/euro exchange rate is great, the tavernas are opening here and ..........". Events in Athens and Brussels may seem a world away but thats where Greeces future is being shaped.

No one seems to know what will happen next if the Greeks have to leave the euro. Remember, its only a few years ago that this country was run by the military. Maybe unlikely, but with no political party or coalition able to form a government, a return to those days cant be ruled out.

I keep my boat in Greece because I love the country and the Greek people but I do wonder if I should hand over the second installment of my annual marina contract fee just yet. (Before anyone else says it, I know that my attitude, as a creditor of Greece, is an example of the reason Greece is getting deeper and deeper into this mess but, like most Greeks, Im thinking of number one.

With a big portion of my life savings currently tied up in a Greek marina and another portion ashore in a Preveza boatyard, the question "Is it time to get out of Greece" really isnt a silly one.

Even if Greece leaves the Euro the marinas will still be here and open for business. We've just taken (and paid for) another 12-month contract here on Crete. I suspect that if they do exit the Euro the marinas will still price themselves in Euros and you'll pay in drachmas whatever the conversion rate happens to be at the time. The cost of a marina berth is unlikely to change much (priced in Euros).

Post-Euro the one thing the Greeks will be desperate for is foreign currency and that means tourism will be a major priority for them. And we're tourists of course. So although I'm expecting a great deal of short-term chaos post-Euro I don't really see the sky falling in.

The only thing we've done different from previous years is that we recently registered with the tourist police and we now have Greek registration cards. This is actually an EU requirement in any EU country if you stay there more than 90 days. The Greeks have never bothered before, and aren't that much interested now, but if things start to go pear-shaped here at least we'll be legal...

 

[Marsupial]

Even if Greece leaves the Euro the marinas will still be here and open for business. ..

like Argostoli, Itea, Trazonia? to name but a few hmmm; no one can be sure that anything will be the same as it is now if Greece does leave the Euro Zone (EZ), whatever the national currency turns out to be expect massive inflation of anything that is an import into Greece - like, well, almost everything, not sure that the average Greek understands that even if they leave the EZ the euro denominated debt will follow them around, a default and unplanned exit from EZ would be catastrophic in the short to medium term, long term who knows.

we love it here but. .

Let's hope some sort of government can be formed and Greece can struggle its way out of the mire. but right now all bets are off.

 

[charles_reed]

Perhaps you are unaware of the history of the history of the 3 marinas you mention (there are 11 more usually outside the Ionian which is possibly your sole cruising areas)
All these marinas were built with EC Regional Fund support, none of them has ever had a management in place. The recent attempt to "sell" them off, by the Greek government was a fiasco, there was only one derisory bid.
As to the marinas being there - well they self-evidently are so.

Whilst I tend to agree with your contention that withdrawal from the €zone would probably not be in the Greeks best interest - instantly stopping the life-support trickle from the Troika and resulting in no more money for the salaries of the bloated public sector.
We all, in Europe, belong to alleged democracies and the Greeks may have been the first. They are now expressing their rejection in common with the Netherlands, France and Spain of the Schroder-Merkel doctrine of state austerity. Even the Germans in the NRW elections have given the same reply.
The Greek economy never could and, IMHO never will, be able to repay their current debt so it has to be written off as a short, brutish default or as a long-drawn period of impoverisation.
But they've enjoyed the last 18 years, but haven't we all be living in fools' paradise?
Keynes always did advocate a budget which in the long-term balanced.

 

[rascacio]

Perhaps you are unaware of the history of the history of the 3 marinas you mention (there are 11 more usually outside the Ionian which is possibly your sole cruising areas)
All these marinas were built with EC Regional Fund support, none of them has ever had a management in place. The recent attempt to "sell" them off, by the Greek government was a fiasco, there was only one derisory bid.
As to the marinas being there - well they self-evidently are so.

Whilst I tend to agree with your contention that withdrawal from the €zone would probably not be in the Greeks best interest - instantly stopping the life-support trickle from the Troika and resulting in no more money for the salaries of the bloated public sector.
We all, in Europe, belong to alleged democracies and the Greeks may have been the first. They are now expressing their rejection in common with the Netherlands, France and Spain of the Schroder-Merkel doctrine of state austerity. Even the Germans in the NRW elections have given the same reply.
The Greek economy never could and, IMHO never will, be able to repay their current debt so it has to be written off as a short, brutish default or as a long-drawn period of impoverisation.
But they've enjoyed the last 18 years, but haven't we all be living in fools' paradise?
Keynes always did advocate a budget which in the long-term balanced.

+1

 

[nimbusgb]

If Greece exits voluntarily they are effectively declaring themselves bankrupt. It strikes me that the people with the most to lose are those that lent them money in the first place and not the Greeks. I'm talking about the man-in-the-street not the state as a whole. Greeks I have spoken to have all said all the money supposedly poured in to 'bail out' the economy 'disappears', non of it reaches the economy, businesses or makes any difference to the day to day economy. They don't see past the point that 'the government' has received funds and those funds appear to have 'disappeared'. No wonder they believe that the government is totally corrupt.

Greece could exit and the overblown public sector would be right up **** creek but for the Greek-in-the-street it might be the best thing yet. As has been said marinas ( and just about every other tourist based industry ) will continue to price in and accept Euros. ( or Dollars )

To those not in state employ the exchange rate to the Drachma doesn't matter a damn if you have a pocket full of Euros. Remember Greeks generally walk around with their money in their pockets, they mistrust banks generally.

It may be self destructive but the pain of exit would only last a short time as opposed to a decade or more of deep austerity. I can't see Greece backtracking on the path they have chosen.

 

[jimbaerselman]

The Greek economy never could and, IMHO never will, be able to repay their current debt so it has to be written off as a short, brutish default or as a long-drawn period of impoverisation.

Or by devaluating through inflation.

The whole Euro zone has a debt problem (as does the £!) which could be solved (to all creditors chagrin) by a small degree of inflation. This is the nub of the disagreement between Merkel and the rest. It means capital becomes more expensive for Germany as well as the rest.

I wonder who is going to blink first. Merkel, or those who wish for some inflation . . . meanwhile my back garden here in Finikounda is being converted to a market garden plot, and my Euro balance is held outside Greece.

For visitors to Greece, who may wish to hedge against Greece dropping out of the Euro, the rule will be that cash is king, especially Euros, whilst balances in Greek banks (and from ATM) may be converted to Draculas - perhaps over-stamped Euros as a temporary measure.

So bring small denomination notes so you don't receive too many ex-euros/overstamped notes/draculas as change - or from ATMs. They'll devalue. If Greece leaves the Euro . . . but a lot of blinking must occur first.

But your genuine Euros will be (a) cheaper to buy with sterling and (b) very much wanted by the locals, and highly valued!

 

[Borden]

The View today from a marina in Greece

I've just received this newsletter from Messolonghi Marina:

Colin
...............................................................

Messolonghi Marina News letter 03 – May 2012

“Good” news from Greece.

We are happy to announce that, after two years, we finally have received the license for the extension of the marina.
We will keep you posted on the developments.

Despite or due to the crisis, eventually the situation in Greece will turn for the better.
Of course the current economic situation is very difficult for the people, but slowly we see things changing.
New entrepreneurship is starting. This is what Greece needs.
The new generation is no longer willing to depend on bureaucracy and corruption.
We as investors and developers support this change.

What you can do.
- Keep your trust in Greece as being one of the most beautiful and safe sailing countries of the world
- Keep your trust in the common Greek people. Their kindness and hospitality did not change.
- Support the economy and protect yourself against corruption by paying your duties.
How to do this.
• Always ask for signed/stamped papers, price offers, agreements etc.
• Always ask for proper invoices / receipts.
• Pay by credit card as much as possible.
• If you don’t trust what is asked for, always demand an explanation in writing, duly signed/stamped by the authority in charge.

For example:
In the marina you can always pay by credit card and will receive the credit card out print.
If paid cash the marina will hand out a receipt like shown below.




Remember; a journey of a thousand miles starts with its first step.

On behalf of the marina management and staff, I wish you a good boating season and trust you will enjoy your time in Greece

Kind regards-Cordialement- Freundlichen Grüssen- Cordiali saluti- Vriendelijke Groet- Μετά τιμής
Jo Mennen

Messolonghi Marina
Port of Messolonghi
30200 Messolonghi
Greece office:
Tel: + 30 26310 50 190
Fax:+ 30 26310 24886
International office : + 31 85 5004579
info@messolonghimarina.com
www.messolonghimarina.com
VHF Channel 69

 

[jordanbasset]

We recently booked with Messolonghi to stay next winter. Were very impressed with the marina. Always found the town once you got a few streets back was lovely. Pedestrianised streets, nice restaurants and cafes/bars. Downside is that it is a 15 minute walk into town but this is a small price to pay for the upsides. I do understand they had problems in the past but when we were there they just opened the second shower/toilet block and the facilities were as good if not better than most marinas I have been in.

 

[nimbusgb]

“Good” news from Greece.

We are happy to announce that, after two years, we finally have received the license for the extension of the marina.
We will keep you posted on the developments.

Despite or due to the crisis, eventually the situation in Greece will turn for the better.
Of course the current economic situation is very difficult for the people, but slowly we see things changing.
New entrepreneurship is starting. This is what Greece needs.
The new generation is no longer willing to depend on bureaucracy and corruption.
We as investors and developers support this change.

What you can do.
- Keep your trust in Greece as being one of the most beautiful and safe sailing countries of the world
- Keep your trust in the common Greek people. Their kindness and hospitality did not change.
- Support the economy and protect yourself against corruption by paying your duties.
How to do this.
• Always ask for signed/stamped papers, price offers, agreements etc.
• Always ask for proper invoices / receipts.
• Pay by credit card as much as possible.
• If you don’t trust what is asked for, always demand an explanation in writing, duly signed/stamped by the authority in charge.

For example:
In the marina you can always pay by credit card and will receive the credit card out print.
If paid cash the marina will hand out a receipt like shown below.

Remember; a journey of a thousand miles starts with its first step.

That sort of thing reminds me of the 3 times I have been to company meetings where some C level wally has stood up and said 'We have heard there are rumours about ...x,y,z situation, there is *nothing* to worry about, the future is rosy!' These meetings are followed about 3 weeks later by the first round of voluntary redundancy meetings.

 

[lusitano]

€700 Million Removed from Greek Banks in the last 24 hours !!!