GREECE - the fall-out for Liveaboards

grumpygit said:
Oh come off it !

Don't blame the Greek's for being Greek and thinking with naiveity of your understanding of their business demeanour. Do you think your twopen'th worth about Imray will be passed on to all and sundry? For sure I doubt it and If you think that, you're in cloud cuckoo land. If one does not like what's on offer, go somewhere else or do a deal there and then.

I think Growing Lad has summed it up from the Greek prospective and I have put my bit in earlier too. The Status Quo is changing and whinge-ing and pontificating will not make the slightest difference.
Greece is still probably one of the cheapest and best places to sail........Just live with it and take it on the chin, otherwise if the fire is too hot get out and make more room for us that appreciate what we've got including the changes and all, because we can't change em ! ............We are visitors and please remember this as it's their backyard not ours.......

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I was quite flattering about your comments earlier in this thread. I wonder why. Your vitriol is excessive, unwarranted and smacks of someone too long in the pub.

If you care to read my contributions to this thread you will see that they are far from anti-Greek and far from whingeing. I've stated unequivocally that before baling out of the country, people might consider the reason they went there in the first place, what it continues to offer, and that whatever relative hardships may come, ordinary Greek people will feel them far more than most liveaboards. That "might consider" contrasts rather well, I think, with your hysterical hectoring.

The question was asked as to why prices in Greece seemed high compared to wages. My reply described one mechanism I knew to operate. (Not 'the' mechanism, just one.) I have no expectation that what I suggested will be "passed on to all and sundry," not did I imply as much. My two examples were facts, undisputable facts. This is called "information." It is the basis of informed opinion. Your apoplectic ramble is the basis of something else.

"Status Quo", by the way, is a band, not a condition. It seems they have at least one more chord than you.
 
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grumpygit said:
Oh come off it !

Don't blame the Greek's for being Greek and thinking with naiveity of your understanding of their business demeanour. Do you think your twopen'th worth about Imray will be passed on to all and sundry? For sure I doubt it and If you think that, you're in cloud cuckoo land. If one does not like what's on offer, go somewhere else or do a deal there and then.

I think Growing Lad has summed it up from the Greek prospective and I have put my bit in earlier too. The Status Quo is changing and whinge-ing and pontificating will not make the slightest difference.
Greece is still probably one of the cheapest and best places to sail........Just live with it and take it on the chin, otherwise if the fire is too hot get out and make more room for us that appreciate what we've got including the changes and all, because we can't change em ! ............We are visitors and please remember this as it's their backyard not ours.......



I do hope, you are not another newbie telling me that I should move out, after 19 years living here because I see a lot of change ,not all for the good.
If you read my posts you will see in all of them.I love the place. THAT MIND YOU does not mean that .I Like getting RIPPED OFF. It looks to me that the whinging and Pontificating is coming from eleswhere.

Sometimes when on here, I wonder about peoples nature ,they ask questions ,want advise about the various places, types of anchors, marinas, where to get work done .Will I let them use one of my mooring ,for a couple of weeks usually for free .They are very nice when planing to come out then two years later tell me to F00K off somewhere else :(
Cheers bobt
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macd said:
I was quite flattering about your comments earlier in this thread. I wonder why. Your vitriol is excessive, unwarranted and smacks of someone too long in the pub.

If you care to read my contributions to this thread you will see that they are far from anti-Greek and far from whingeing. I've stated unequivocally that before baling out of the country, people might consider the reason they went there in the first place, what it continues to offer, and that whatever relative hardships may come, ordinary Greek people will feel them far more than most liveaboards. That "might consider" contrasts rather well, I think, with your hysterical hectoring.

The question was asked as to why prices in Greece seemed high compared to wages. My reply described one mechanism I knew to operate. (Not 'the' mechanism, just one.) I have no expectation that what I suggested will be "passed on to all and sundry," not did I imply as much. My two examples were facts, undisputable facts. This is called "information." It is the basis of informed opinion. Your apoplectic ramble is the basis of something else.

"Status Quo", by the way, is a band, not a condition. It seems they have at least one more chord than you.
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By jove, your rant is so much better than mine, I'm in awe.......

We can't alter anything and this thread is becoming a moan etc....If anyone does not like what is happening........ well enough has been said.

I am sorry if you or others where offended as non was intended , but I make no apoligies for being blunt.

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On behalf of the Greek Goverment and the People of Greece we express our sincere gratitude for your thougts and suggestions for our National debt.We will pass your to our think-tank to be taken under serious consideration.We will also bring to the parliament the apropriate legislation to fight serious increases on the price of native salomons and native whiskey so it will not affect the budget of our guests.Also in the same vote we will change our country's name to Pigland as one or more of you call us so as not to have identification problems.Again let us thank you for your contributions to our economy.George A. Papandreou (signed in his absence by Dimitris)
 
PLEIAS said:
On behalf of the Greek Goverment and the People of Greece we express our sincere gratitude for your thougts and suggestions for our National debt.We will pass your to our think-tank to be taken under serious consideration.We will also bring to the parliament the apropriate legislation to fight serious increases on the price of native salomons and native whiskey so it will not affect the budget of our guests.Also in the same vote we will change our country's name to Pigland as one or more of you call us so as not to have identification problems.Again let us thank you for your contributions to our economy.George A. Papandreou (signed in his absence by Dimitris)
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Thanks. And please wish George good luck.

Priceless!
 
PLEIAS said:
On behalf of the Greek Goverment and the People of Greece we express our sincere gratitude for your thougts and suggestions for our National debt.We will pass your to our think-tank to be taken under serious consideration.We will also bring to the parliament the apropriate legislation to fight serious increases on the price of native salomons and native whiskey so it will not affect the budget of our guests.Also in the same vote we will change our country's name to Pigland as one or more of you call us so as not to have identification problems.Again let us thank you for your contributions to our economy.George A. Papandreou (signed in his absence by Dimitris)
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I think that was an extremely restrained response! It is not only Grece that has fiscal problems ("our" banks!!),and I think it's hilarious that people who use the Greek infrastructure and pay no tax towards it have the temerity to criticise those Greeks who dodge tax !

It is also quite strange to read of how corrupt Greek politicians are,given the recent history of British MPs!
With a bit of luck my cruising ground next year will be the Ionian, and if all the whingers and self appointed finance gurus have left-----well,more room for me!
I wish Greece and Greeks well,despite your(and our)politicians.
 
Ludd said:
I think that was an extremely restrained response! It is not only Grece that has fiscal problems ("our" banks!!),and I think it's hilarious that people who use the Greek infrastructure and pay no tax towards it have the temerity to criticise those Greeks who dodge tax !

It is also quite strange to read of how corrupt Greek politicians are,given the recent history of British MPs!
With a bit of luck my cruising ground next year will be the Ionian, and if all the whingers and self appointed finance gurus have left-----well,more room for me!
I wish Greece and Greeks well,despite your(and our)politicians.
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Ludd old chap if you need any help or questions about the 1onion or on the hard side in the Cyclades and Saronics feel free.
However question regarding your old flame "Lynne" will not be put on this open forum:)
although I might be able for you to get another date with her
Cheers bobt
 
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Originally Posted by BlueTwo
I remember the joke in Brussels during a European summit meeting. The French complained that the Swiss sent a delegate who was Minister of the Swiss Navy. The German delegate replied that if Great Britain could send a Finance Minister the Swiss could send a Navy Minister

NO FURTHER COMMENTS NEEDED IMHO
 
Ti tha kanate

I first sailed Greek waters in 1954. It hasn't changed much. I still love the place and the people.
But their governments go in corrupt dynasties.
Before I sailed there I was involved in the British Mission to Greece which was trying to stop the bloodshed in northern Greece.
Greece, unfortunately is factional.
The legacy of hundreds of years of Turkish domination can be sumed up with a description of the major internal problem that Greece faces
RUSFETI
FAKILAKI
I'll let someone else tell you what these words mean.
Both problems are endemic.
They both lead to a parallel economy that is not reflected in the statistics.
So ti tha kanate?
I don't know, and I guess that nobody does.
 
binch said:
I first sailed Greek waters in 1954. It hasn't changed much. I still love the place and the people.
But their governments go in corrupt dynasties.
Before I sailed there I was involved in the British Mission to Greece which was trying to stop the bloodshed in northern Greece.
Greece, unfortunately is factional.
The legacy of hundreds of years of Turkish domination can be sumed up with a description of the major internal problem that Greece faces
RUSFETI
FAKILAKI
I'll let someone else tell you what these words mean.
Both problems are endemic.
They both lead to a parallel economy that is not reflected in the statistics.
So ti tha kanate?
I don't know, and I guess that nobody does.
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Dear Bill
I hope that you are well
The problems of Greece unfortunately, as in most modern developing nations,Is the lust for money, when you when to Greece sailing in the seventies and eighties the majority of the people in the sailing areas were poor, but very honest.
After years of seeing the wealth of other people visiting they wanted the same .And you cannot blame them.

People like youself wrote best selling sailing books explaining to others how wonderful these places were at the time of your visits and they expect the same cheap sailing

However those times have changed now all of Eu countries, will want to be rich the same as their neighbours .We need leaders like yourself to explore new sailing areas and write their views ,for others to follow.

Now, you will also need to be careful helping people on here, as after they have been to the places you have writen about ,they will start telling you, that if you dont like it go somewhere else.

When I first went to live in Greece In the early ninties .I asked, and was given very good advice by youself. I would have never dreamed of telling you to go somewhere else if you were critical of certain thing in some areas .Must be an age thing.

Best Regards bobt
 
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German intervention !!!!!

Here's a thought with the wealthy and the commercially active residents and visitors to Greece.........
This is how some Germans think Greece sould move forward.......

"Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks - and the Acropolis too!" says the headline in the Bild newspaper.

You can read the rest on.....http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8549793.stm

Just imagine all those private islands with private mooring bouys....shudder to the thought.....

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Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert (Waters) PINK FLOYD

"Oi...Get your filthy hands off my desert!"
"What 'e say?"

Brezhnev took Afghanistan.
Begin took Beirut.
Galtieri took the Union Jack.
And Maggie, over lunch one day,
Took a cruiser with all hands.
Apparently, to make him give it back.



Take all your overgrown infants away somewhere
And build them a home, a little place of their own.
The Fletcher Memorial
Home for Incurable Tyrants and Kings.

And they can appear to themselves every day
On closed circuit T.V.
To make sure they're still real.
It's the only connection they feel.
"Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, Reagan and Haig,
Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher, and Paisly,
"Hello Maggie!"
Mr. Brezhnev and party.
"Scusi dov'è il bar?"
The ghost of McCarthy,
The memories of Nixon.
"Who's the bald chap?"
"Good-bye!"
And now, adding colour, a group of anonymous latin-
American meat packing glitterati.

Did they expect us to treat them with any respect?
They can polish their medals and sharpen their
Smiles, and amuse themselves playing games for awhile.
Boom boom, bang bang, lie down you're dead.

Safe in the permanent gaze of a cold glass eye
With their favorite toys
They'll be good girls and boys
In the Fletcher Memorial Home for colonial
Wasters of life and limb.

Is everyone in?
Are you having a nice time?
Now the final solution can be applied.
 
I'm not bright enough to follow your last post PLEIAS, but listen.... In the light of a certain confession by someone who gave one of your islands away..
If we kidnap Binchy, any chance that the Greek government would be interested in paying just a small fee for him? They could trade him to the Turks who I understand may have many vacancies within their military for officers of proven experience. :D :D :D
 
What politicians do or say is almost never affecting their pockets or their children.It's not them that are actually fighting their wars or paying for them it's us.That's what they are -overgrown infants - when Maggie or Lady Maggie decided to cut back costs it was not her loosing a job or paying out of her own pocket.Same thing with the argentinians and their rights not on the islands but on the oil rights.And if you can't name the game don't play it.My answer was to the German Spiele and their quotations.I refuse to honour the comments of a newspaper or magazine that simply is trying to sell more headlines than issues.Espesially if this article is plced between breast implants and allien abductions.Otherwise it's a modern Goebel's Propaganda in which newspapers are today very good in doing.If they don't trust our economy then they shouldn't try to sell us so hard their Leopard battle tanks and shells or their Thyssen build subs who are not so stealth and listing badly or their Eurofighter.Remember that the war in Iraq was started by the roumour of weapons of mass destruction.Try to sell that to the parents of your lost british youth that was sacrifised for a roumor and Blair's ambitions to join the game.Lyrics as the ones in my post are in my mind timeles and if you just change a couple of names it's history repeated but as a joke on us.
 
Pacifism

Pacifism breeds war.
Those of us around in the thirties when the world was obsessed with pacifism saw that ritual disarmament led directly to war because there is always one ******* who does not disarm.
Si vis pacem para bellum
If you wish for peace, prepare for war. (Pliny, I think)
 
In the latest increase in tax, petrol in Kefalonia is now 1.46 europs a litre! (unleaded) this has got to be one of the dearest prices in Europe.
I wonder if I can still ride a bike?
 
Try Bulgaria????

I have just returned from a week in Bulgaria , also a full EU member , and was astonished at the prices , just across the border from Greece and the cost of daily needs was exactly 50 % of Greek costs ! . the Lev is fixed at 2 to 1 Euro . so maybe Greece should re adopt the Drachma ! but sadly no med ports and a long way to the Black sea !
 
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