GREECE - the fall-out for Liveaboards

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Greece will bounce back again as always. Many forget that Greece, together with other Med countries, supported euro-land for a number of years with annual growth of above 8%.

However, Greece is a small economy with relatively small and simple infrastructure and when things go bad, countries like Portugal, Ireland, Greece and to certain extend Spain, can have quick and dramatic effect on their economy.

Greeks have been a very homogeneous society up to very recently; the influx of refugees and others from the ex-soviet union countries has not helped the infrastructure and has created a black economy.

Amazing how quick and eager people are to criticise the nation that has kept the south east gates of Europe safe and good in every way for many many years.

 

[V1701]

You don't seem a friendly sort of person so I'll not comment upon your spat.

Greek Grown peppers €2.50 a kilo and Greek canned salmon even more expensive than imported at €5.40. There is no mileage in your "go elsewhere" philosophy, is there? They need my custom. There I DID comment.

Chas

Maybe there isn't much mileage in going elsewhere, but if there was somewhere equally pleasant and easy to be but cheaper, would you go? Buying local produce would help the average Greek a lot more than buying imported whisky and salmon. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, as am I, and to me your comments sounded critical and judgemental, it's their country not yours...

 

[CharlesSwallow]

Yep!

Ummm.... Salmon is a native fish species in Greece?

Like it is in Italy, I suppose. It is probably farmed like most other cullinary species are nowadays here.

Chas

 

[rivonia]

14 pay days per year is usual in a lot of countries, not just Greece. What is the point of having a high tax rate, for which there is a high incentive to avoid, when you could have a low tax rate which people are willing to pay? Brown knew that when he upped the top rate of tax, the tax take would go down, but still politicians persist in advocating the Hanse Christian Anderson fantasy which modern politics has become.

Generally, political planning projects no further than the next election. Politicians who act in the long term are called statesmen, but we seem to have run out of those.

I'm going to Greece this year to spend my money and support the economy a little bit. I really hope that it all comes right

Nicely put. We shall also come to GREECE and spend our euros. I hope we will help just a little with the economy.

Peter

 

[charles_reed]

Greece - the average punter

Charles, one can understand the anger of the average wage earner who pays his taxes, at the way the wealthy don't pay. Perphaps they will have to go through a period of violence to get their goverment to act, and this might be bad for us yachties.

Perhaps the only out for them short term to raise taxes is to raise VAT on luxury goods to 30% - then they would collect the taxes - but increase the smuggling! So How do they do it? Not an easy problem tacking such a systemic problem.

One thing is clear - No one or country should be let off the hook - we are respnsible for our own governments - and even Mr Brown......

According to many sources (perhaps uncharitable) Greece, since it's inception, in 1830, has defaulted every other year, on its sovereign debt. Certainly there have been 5 recorded incidents of major defaults.

As pointed out the problem is systemic, that of a corrupt oligarchy. As the political governing classes are drawn from this same oligarchy it's unlikely the resolution of Greece's politico-economic problems will be forthcoming internally.

If the minority, unreconstructed Marxist/Leninist communist part of the population have their way there will be direct political action, destined to fail, but IMHO, resulting in discomfort for those who want to just get on with their lives.

The present €land stance is unrealistic and (given the nature of EC politics) unlikely to result in timely or coherent action - let's hope Dominic Strauss-Kahn and the IMF have a chance of sorting the mess - the IMF have the funds, the experience and remit to carry out the necessary cleansing of the Augean stables. The EC, on the other hand, has neither staff, funds or remit.

Yes the Greek are charming, welcoming and remarkably disinclined to petty theft - BUT they're not good at forward planning, have unrealistic expectations and have the Mediterranean curse of public corruption in no-trumps.

A wonderful opportunity to sort their society out or a potential descent into anarchy - whichever it is will be intensely uncomfortable for the Greek man-in-the-street.

 

[Andy and Lyn]

Obviously a country with problems - but a lovely country with lovely people.
It will obviuosly cost us more but won't stop us going and being part of the community.

More to life than money!

 

[Appleyard]

Obviously a country with problems - but a lovely country with lovely people.
It will obviuosly cost us more but won't stop us going and being part of the community.

More to life than money!

Couldn't agree more!! as they say in these parts "you're a lang time deid"

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Couldn't agree more!! as they say in these parts "you're a lang time deid"

When I telephoned Greece yesterday. I spoke to the boat yard manager about keeping the boat on the hard for a couple of months extra .He wanted cash 2000euro the sailmaker 5500euro cash,the painter 4000euro wanted cash, Nothings changed, I love the place they do not see it as their problem.
ITS OURS
cheers

 

[Davy_S]

If you are asked for Cash, ask for a receipt (say you need it for the tax man) thes sometimes results in a much reduced bill!
especialy now, Greek taxpayers have to produce 30% worth of receipts to offset against the 12000 euro tax allowance, or they will only be allowed 6000 euros. the receipts do not include utility bills. We have been asked will we save our Lidl bills for Greek friends

 

[bryantee]

living in greece

worked and then retired in greece. yes a lovely country. they hate the tax people worse than the foreigners.the foreigners pay and dont ask for receipts.!!!.dont want a timoliou(spelling?)
15% 0ff. the accounant has to balance his books every day in case he gets an inspection.
then he has to pay,(under the counter) to keep his job.people ask me why I live and work in 3rd world countries.
BOSS. (because of the system stupid). there is always an outlet.
seriously it is sad for greece. the sense of stability the euro brought instead of constant devaluation is fast disappearing.even though prices were galloping up.
I make these comments from 1st/3rd world India where inflation is between 8-12%.and the average tradesman gets £40 per 50Hours.and the government official maybe £25 per week.
not a rant but keep it in perspective.I can live on half my uk government pension for 9 months of the year.In Greece most families eat out as much as they eat in. what about UK?
if somebody can pm me how to upload a photo .will show the new vds 34 which is being launched next high tide. thanks

 

[grumpygit]

[QUOTE

Yes the Greek are charming, welcoming and remarkably disinclined to petty theft - BUT they're not good at forward planning, have unrealistic expectations and have the Mediterranean curse of public corruption in no-trumps.

A wonderful opportunity to sort their society out or a potential descent into anarchy - whichever it is will be intensely uncomfortable for the Greek man-in-the-street.[/QUOTE]

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Come on now let's be honest this is what makes these loverly people Greek and a beautiful place to be, how else do you want it........?

BUT if they were forward planners they wouldn't be Greek and Greece wouldn't be Greece, and that would take all their charm away. All your terms would mean is that the Greek would lose their indentity like the rest of the chinless bunch of.....in Euro-la-la-land.

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[grumpygit]

If you are asked for Cash, ask for a receipt (say you need it for the tax man) thes sometimes results in a much reduced bill!
especialy now, Greek taxpayers have to produce 30% worth of receipts to offset against the 12000 euro tax allowance, or they will only be allowed 6000 euros. the receipts do not include utility bills. We have been asked will we save our Lidl bills for Greek friends

Not Quite sure I'm with you, as in not sure what you are portraying........? Why would a Greek worker that has paid tax on their wages ask for a Lidl bill.........?

For the bulk of Greece they only relate to cash, unlike the rest of the EU that depend on CC's. The tax inspectors are out there on the streets making sure that businesses produce till receipts and all retail outlets have to have electronic tills with print outs.

Let's hope things don't change too much. There's nothing worse than a souvereign state losing their sovereignty......So here's hoping things don't change too much.....

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[lille_bee]

if somebody can pm me how to upload a photo .will show the new vds 34 which is being launched next high tide. thanks

Try this:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/topcatsail/Photo_tutor/Photo_Tutor.html

 

[djk]

A few days ago I received an email from a well know yard in Preveza. Payments for work done in the yard must be paid by bank transfer or cash, cards are not accepted, If you want a invoice then add 19%VAT to the bill!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr Cassandra]

A few days ago I received an email from a well know yard in Preveza. Payments for work done in the yard must be paid by bank transfer or cash, cards are not accepted, If you want a invoice then add 19%VAT to the bill!!!!!!!!!

Thats what I said above ,Cash is King, in the republic of Greece.
and long may it be so

 

[Davy_S]

Not Quite sure I'm with you, as in not sure what you are portraying........? Why would a Greek worker that has paid tax on their wages ask for a Lidl bill.........?

Have a look at this site, it will explain the new Greek tax laws.

tp://livingingreece.gr/2010/02/12/taxes-greece/
http://livingingreece.gr/2010/02/12/taxes-greece/

sorry cannot get the link to work, I have real problems with this site today (connecting)

 

[Appleyard]

Have a look at this site, it will explain the new Greek tax laws.

tp://livingingreece.gr/2010/02/12/taxes-greece/
http://livingingreece.gr/2010/02/12/taxes-greece/

sorry cannot get the link to work, I have real problems with this site today (connecting)

Davy....I have just had a look at this site....What's the deal with the receipts? From reading ,it would seem that you have to submit a stack of receipts every year,,from Tavernas,taxis,hairdressers etc etc in order to keep your tax bill down. How does it work? Confused

 

[Appleyard]

, If you want a invoice then add 19%VAT to the bill!!!!!!!!!

Nothing new there then!!!

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Davy....I have just had a look at this site....What's the deal with the receipts? From reading ,it would seem that you have to submit a stack of receipts every year,,from Tavernas,taxis,hairdressers etc etc in order to keep your tax bill down. How does it work? Confused

They check out the receipt issued by various businesses .against the earnings declared by the same businesses.

 

[Appleyard]

They check out the receipt issued by various businesses .against the earnings declared by the same businesses.

Sounds like a lot of work for someone ...keeps them in a job I suppose.