rigman
Well-Known Member
Time to get out of Dodge. We sail at dawn
Greece/Riots/Taxes/
- Thread starter rigman
- Start date
cimo
Well-Known Member
all the world (all europe anyhow) I imagine are watching Greece right now. what was the dominating deciding factor for you, the taxes or the riots? I see Spain has "offically" joined the credit crunch bunch today. Whatever else, these are major historic times right now. A bit scarey nonetheless.
Gavi
Well-Known Member
Have been watching it. Lived on Syngrou Ave for about a year, afer several periods of working in and out of Athens, and saw "bouncy" locals a number of times. This looks a bit terminal.
PLEIAS
Well-Known Member
How stupid can a bunch of youngsters can become turning a clearly massive demonstration against the new measures in an anti-establishment clash with the police and three people dead.Unfortunately they always find their chance among the crowds and it always ends with garbage bins and state-cars burning.It's what always scares us the once rebelious youth that wanted to change the world and ended up changing TV channels from the house couch.I fear for what's to come when the actual reality of the cut downs will hit the average greek.
grumpygit
Well-Known Member
Afternoon Pleias, I have been following the Greek situation with alarm and some cases disgust.
There are obviously a small element out on the streets trying to cause as much anarchy as possible. I would not like to imagine even the most rebellious would go out with the intensions of killing anyone.
Apart from the massive problems that the fiscal institutions face, the picture Greece is showing to the rest of the world will have such dire consequences.....to what is such a beautiful country.
Can I please ask you from a Greek prospective why the government are hitting the average Greek so hard and don't seem to be going after the real culprits that have prospered so much in the past?
Surely if this was implemented it would show some balance and recompense to the Greeks that are taking the brunt of the austerity measures and just might relieve a lot of the aggression.
I do realise that the Greek way of life (and political) has to change drastically and the tax evasion that is taught from the cradle to the grave needs a total overhaul.
Lets hope that the 110 billion €s is to be used correctly and wisely and the less scrupulous are not rubbing their hands thinking they have more to squander and embessle........
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PLEIAS
Well-Known Member
I can't offer a way out of this.Let alone propose one.What happened yesterday was long due and it was by pure luck that it hadn't happened before.I can't say an accident waiting to happen cause when you raise a gun and shoot it you can't say afterwards that you didn't mean to kill anyone.It's murder no matter what you say.As to how it came to this i propose for all to watch the videos on the following link.Is it a plot is it stupidity i can't answer but keep in mind this guy's point of view and also follow the comments from RADIO ARVYLA further down as these guys are simply expressing what most of us think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=IbNtZYkAEHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=IbNtZYkAEHE
grumpygit
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the link, very interesting and enlightening...........A great improvement on watching the polictitions and the press beating their chests.
Sorry if the word killing instead of murder disagreed with you....It's not my place to pre-empt any such judgement.
Cheers
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Mr Cassandra
Well-Known Member
Today BBC World Service announced
That 60 Greek Doctors names have been published. They,its alleged , have defrauded the tax system, next week the names of Lawyers and Accountants are going to be revealed.
The Greek government announced, that publishing these names show the rest of Europe that they are serious about the endemic tax evasion that has been going on in their country
That 60 Greek Doctors names have been published. They,its alleged , have defrauded the tax system, next week the names of Lawyers and Accountants are going to be revealed.
The Greek government announced, that publishing these names show the rest of Europe that they are serious about the endemic tax evasion that has been going on in their country
grumpygit
Well-Known Member
Hi Bobt.
Isn't this an absolute poor effort from a corrupt government that has not got the balls to go after their own, i.e. the thieving politicians that have taken and taken and now have another 115 billion to go at.
Until they go after their these people, take them to court, strip them of their wealth and to put them in prison unreservedly.........This pitiful offering of a few professionals is not going to calm the masses. The Greek public know who the main culprits are and they want their pound of flesh........
Pandora's Box doesn't just need opening, it needs the lid ripping right off..........!
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Mr Cassandra
Well-Known Member
Yes could not agree more. My poor Greek friends in Poros say that there are very few tourist there, outside the hotel in Neorio/Russian bay, only one person on a sun lounger and it is said that Athens hotels had 20000 cancellation last week after the riots.
It will be very difficult for the innocent local people for the next couple of years.
It is possible that I may call into Aegina in a couple of weeks are you still moored there
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grumpygit
Well-Known Member
Same sort of apathy over here too, Hotels way down on clientele along with Taverna's and others businesses to a degree. With the riots and strikes it's akin to the devil and the deep blue sea........Very quiet here for a Friday, I've seen it busier through winter......
I leave for a week in the UK on the 19th, and hope to leave Aegina on the 27th for the bulk of the summer in the Sporades. If that fits your timetable we'll be happy to see you.
We should have left 6 weeks ago but due to a local sh-1-t job that failed on me causing a 40cm gash to the abdomen with 64 staples and god knows how many internal stitches.......but there lies another story !!!!!
Know your tradesmen and make sure you can sue the barstewards......2 nil to me.
Cheers
GG
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Mr Cassandra
Well-Known Member
Bloody hell 40cm gash to your abdomen!!! you must have a bigger belly than me
I am going to Kalamaki, Alimos around the 20th will then be free for the rest of the summer
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grumpygit
Well-Known Member
Bloody hell 40cm gash to your abdomen!!! you must have a bigger belly than me
I am going to Kalamaki, Alimos around the 20th will then be free for the rest of the summer
Not as big as some we might know ?...........................we might hook up some where. We'll probably be into Porus in the Autumn.
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lefkasman
Well-Known Member
Seems to me that the Greeks are their own worst enemy, it appears that from next Tuesday we are going to be without electricity for forty eight hour periods, right at the start of the holiday season which is for many the only source of income...
The union representing workers at the Public Power Corporation (PPC) has called for rolling 48-hour strikes as of Tuesday to protest the government’s austerity measures and its plans to reform the country’s creaking pension system. It is likely that the action will disrupt power supply across the country. The union condemned the government for “succumbing to the pressure of [global financial] markets” to the detriment of the Greek people.
Total bloody madness
The union representing workers at the Public Power Corporation (PPC) has called for rolling 48-hour strikes as of Tuesday to protest the government’s austerity measures and its plans to reform the country’s creaking pension system. It is likely that the action will disrupt power supply across the country. The union condemned the government for “succumbing to the pressure of [global financial] markets” to the detriment of the Greek people.
Total bloody madness
Mr Cassandra
Well-Known Member
Seems to me that the Greeks are their own worst enemy, it appears that from next Tuesday we are going to be without electricity for forty eight hour periods, right at the start of the holiday season which is for many the only source of income...
The union representing workers at the Public Power Corporation (PPC) has called for rolling 48-hour strikes as of Tuesday to protest the government’s austerity measures and its plans to reform the country’s creaking pension system. It is likely that the action will disrupt power supply across the country. The union condemned the government for “succumbing to the pressure of [global financial] markets” to the detriment of the Greek people.
Total bloody madness
Total madness, Who in their right mind would give access to £95 billion to a bunch of rich political thieves who `s track record is to steal all that's been given before, look at all the unfinished marinas that you and I have paid for
IMO there is no way that this euro thing is going to work out. Drachma in 18 months it will probably be the best for the Greece tourism industry to recover and help the poor average Greek man in the street ,may be the same for Portugal and Spain as well to go back to their own currency
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grumpygit
Well-Known Member
Seems to me that the Greeks are their own worst enemy, it appears that from next Tuesday we are going to be without electricity for forty eight hour periods, right at the start of the holiSday season which is for many the only source of income...
The union representing workers at the Public Power Corporation (PPC) has called for rolling 48-hour strikes as of Tuesday to protest the government’s austerity measures and its plans to reform the country’s creaking pension system. It is likely that the action will disrupt power supply across the country. The uniSon condemned the government for “succumbing to the pressure of [global financial] markets” to the detriment of the Greek people.
Total bloody madness
Sorry, I'm not sure I totally agree with you on this one. I don't think you have the grasp of the situation here in Greece. The government is hitting the poorest through to the middle earners.
They are going to be pi**sed. There are some awfully corrupt people in Greece,and you would not believe how corrupt they are......... a lot more so than the UK. If the Greek man in the street see themselves being clobbered with out recompense compared to the people that have caused all this, what's to be expected....
Desperate people have desperate ways..... I do not hold to violent demonstration but I do hold to a voice of discrimination. Sometimes I wish the Brits would be more vocal, but saying that, I believe that's what makes our democracy work......
I am surprised with a handle like lefkasman you haven't a more sympathetic view on all that is happening in Greece (and S.europe for that matter). It's not madness, it's striving for fairness in an democratic country...... ?????
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Thank him above for generators.......
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charles_reed
Well-Known Member
I may have only been in Greece for 18 months, but I see, from some of these posts a wide lack of understanding of the situation here and a total lack of empathy with the Greek masses.
Greece is IMHO, one of the most flagrant examples of an oligarchy in the Community. Those with their hands firmly on the economic controls are not going to give up their priveleged position easily. They have run a crony system ever since the Colonels were moved on, and the "corruption" referred to is seen by them as their natural right.
The Greek man-in-the street is being wrung dry - VAT at 23%, 10% on food and a flat-rate income tax, to mention a few - and has every right to feel persecuted.
No wonder a small minority feel revolution is the only way to change the politico-economic system. The despair amongst youngsters is palpable (perhaps overly pessimistic).
I've found the same Greek-main-in-the-street, generous, hospitable and extremely honest (more so than the Brits). There is still in place here all the mechanisms of a police state - only the commonsense, good nature (and perhaps indolence) of the executive prevent it from being more onerous.
The majority of the population point the finger of accusation directly at their politicians.
Taxation alone will not get them out of this mess, the bloated public-sector payroll (the result of the pork-barrel politics as successive governments have rewarded their supporters) will have to be cut. That will be painful.
Greece's one main industry is tourism, if that is cut, by those of us who have no fellow-feeling and are motivated by apprehension, the country will be condemned to default.
Having enjoyed their hospitality, the ethics of "bread&salt" cut both ways, we have a duty of care.
Fie on you Rigman!!!
Greece is IMHO, one of the most flagrant examples of an oligarchy in the Community. Those with their hands firmly on the economic controls are not going to give up their priveleged position easily. They have run a crony system ever since the Colonels were moved on, and the "corruption" referred to is seen by them as their natural right.
The Greek man-in-the street is being wrung dry - VAT at 23%, 10% on food and a flat-rate income tax, to mention a few - and has every right to feel persecuted.
No wonder a small minority feel revolution is the only way to change the politico-economic system. The despair amongst youngsters is palpable (perhaps overly pessimistic).
I've found the same Greek-main-in-the-street, generous, hospitable and extremely honest (more so than the Brits). There is still in place here all the mechanisms of a police state - only the commonsense, good nature (and perhaps indolence) of the executive prevent it from being more onerous.
The majority of the population point the finger of accusation directly at their politicians.
Taxation alone will not get them out of this mess, the bloated public-sector payroll (the result of the pork-barrel politics as successive governments have rewarded their supporters) will have to be cut. That will be painful.
Greece's one main industry is tourism, if that is cut, by those of us who have no fellow-feeling and are motivated by apprehension, the country will be condemned to default.
Having enjoyed their hospitality, the ethics of "bread&salt" cut both ways, we have a duty of care.
Fie on you Rigman!!!
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CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-Known Member
Nonsense; Greece together with Portugal, Spain and Ireland, were contributing 10% annual growth during the last 10 years, much more than other major EU countries. They were responsible for bringing considerable wealth into Europe; not just from tourism but from exports. Now is pay back time. Also, in the last 10 years there has been a huge influx of "tourists" who decide to stay in Greece for good, surviving on part-time jobs and contributing very little, if anything. Having the Euro is good, but the disadvantages are when the economy is down , there is no way for the individual country to devalue its currency as it would if they still had the drachma, and to adjust the economy until recovery. It is also hard to believe your suggestion that you have paid for the unfinished marinas.
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
Drive around Greece and there are signs everywhere showing how the EU paid 10's of millions of Euros for this development, this road, that bridge, this heritage site excavatation.
Apparently the first couple of million sent for the Preveza road tunnel simply 'dissappeared'. It sure as hell didn't go into the pockets of the man in the street.
EU money paid for a hell of a lot!
Apparently the first couple of million sent for the Preveza road tunnel simply 'dissappeared'. It sure as hell didn't go into the pockets of the man in the street.
EU money paid for a hell of a lot!
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Mr Cassandra
Well-Known Member
Hello
I think you have misunderstood "You and I" means us the honest Tax payer of Europe.As for your 10% annual growth for the past 10 years I thing that growth, may have been an illusion .
I have always supported the Greek "man in the street" and have highly praised their honesty and kindness however the problems are higher up the food chain, I am afraid.
How and when this crisis finishes, I have no idea in the meantime I will stay in Greek waters and do what I can to support their local economy the best that I can .Lets just hope that the anarchists do not frighten the tourist off.
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