Greece paperwork

[OldBawley]

Some hear-say rumours about a Saronic island harbour.
Two yachtsman would have been threatened with 5000 € fines for not having a stamp or Dekpa ( 8 m yacht ) and the other had insurance but no Greek language paper to prove his insurance was valid.
I think its all gossip but would like to know if someone knows exactly what the situation in Greece is now regarding Dekpa and stamps, particular less than 10 meter yachts, where to get stamps and the need for a Greek language insurance proof.

 

[Falcon34]

Some hear-say rumours about a Saronic island harbour.
Two yachtsman would have been threatened with 5000 € fines for not having a stamp or Dekpa ( 8 m yacht ) and the other had insurance but no Greek language paper to prove his insurance was valid.
I think its all gossip but would like to know if someone knows exactly what the situation in Greece is now regarding Dekpa and stamps, particular less than 10 meter yachts, where to get stamps and the need for a Greek language insurance proof.

As I understand it, all boats including those less than 10m are now required to obtain a DEKPA document and to have it stamped by the apart Port Police at no more than 12 month intervals, which is a better situation than the previous 30 days requirement.
And yes quite sensibly they do require the insurance certificate to be provided in A Greek translation, which reputable insurers will provide and also you need to ensure you have the increased indemnity values included on the certificate as per Greek requirements.

 

[OldBawley]

Just checked my own 2015 / 2016 certificate of liability.
Although I asked Delta Lloyd specific for a Greek language document, the insurance company provided a English language PDF.
They also provided a special document for Italy, again in English.
I wont bother for a Greek form, guess that a coast guard officer is required to be able to read and speak some English. ( Is that not the international nautical language ? )

How old may a Dekpa be ? Mine is acquired in 2002, very worn, but still has empty stamp spots.
Having had some problems with piffling bureaucrats and the consequences of there actions, I surely would like to be 100 % sure all papers are to There requirements.

Learned that 100% does not exist in bureaucrat land. It just takes a new law or amendment to be liable to big fines seconds later.

 

[NornaBiron]

How old may a Dekpa be ? Mine is acquired in 2002, very worn, but still has empty stamp spots.

When we bought our DEKPA in Corfu in 2008 we were told that it was valid as long as it still had space for stamps. We have presented it for an annual stamp this year with no difficulty (despite its nearly falling apart state!).

Your insurance company should provide you with a Greek translation of your certificate. Not all Greek Port Police speak and read English. Why make things difficult when they do not need to be?

 

[Tony Cross]

All EU-flagged boats over 7m now need a DEKPA and it must be stamped at least once every 365 days. The LOA limit was reduced when the TPP (cruising tax) was proposed, this takes effect at 7m so the DEKPA requirement was lowered from 10m to 7m in preparation for the TPP (which may now not be collected at all). The rules for non-EU flagged boats are different.

Greece requires that your insurance document has a Greek language translation and it must also specify the following limits:

i). Civil liability for bodily harm or death of the passengers and third parties because of collision, crash, sinking or any other cause. The insurance sum is fixed to fifty thousand (50.000) Euros per passenger and cannot be less than five hundred thousand (500.000) Euros per event.

ii). Civil liability for material damage of the passengers and third parties because of collision, crash, sinking or any other cause. The insurance sum is fixed to one hundred and fifty thousand (150.000) Euros.

iii). Cause of sea pollution. The insurance sum is fixed to one hundred and fifty thousand (150.000) Euros.

All reputable insurance companies will provide these details (and the translation) as a matter of course or on request.

I have no information on whether you can be fined for not having the above nor how much such fines might be. Typically in Greece the port police seem to make these fines up as they go along. The best defence is to have the proper paperwork.

 

[Artic Warrior]

Hi All,
Does my dekpa need to be stamped if ashore for more than 12 months,
Im presuming it doesn't , but I will have the marina office write a letter saying have been out of the water for ex amount of months,

Colin

 

[jimbaerselman]

Greek regulations have changed a lot over the last three years, so The Cruising Association publishes an up-to-date record of what's going on for all cruising folk at http://www.theca.org.uk/news/greektax

Does my dekpa need to be stamped if ashore for more than 12 months

EU Boats out of the water do not have to have a valid DEKPA - they're assumed to be "out of use". When you plan to launch, you must make sure your DEKPA has been stamped in the last 12 months. That may mean getting a stamp before you launch.

 

[jordanbasset]

I am a couple of years out of date now but I seem to remember you had to get the Port Police to stamp the Dekpa, or maybe issue a form when the boat was lifted out for the winter and lifting back in?

 

[Artic Warrior]

Ok thanks jim,

I will have some paper work drawn up from the yard saying out of water with dates etc,,,
and have my dekpa stamped before I go back in
You may just say show receipts for being on the hard,,,,,yeah right,,,,,,,its cash all the way here im afraid.

 

[duncan99210]

I am a couple of years out of date now but I seem to remember you had to get the Port Police to stamp the Dekpa, or maybe issue a form when the boat was lifted out for the winter and lifting back in?

IIRC there used to be requirement to have a chitty from the PP for lift out and lift in: some marinas handled that for you, others didn't, others just didn't bother..... As I understand it this requirement was removed by the same legislation that brought in the new length limits and annual stamps.

As far as getting a stamp when returning the boat to the water after a lengthy lay up, the PP weren't interested in where she'd been simply that she was returning to the water and making sure we understood we didn't need another stamp until the next calendar year.

 

[affinite]

I checked in to Kastelorizo last week.
Police were unconcerned that my insurance papers did not include a Greek translation. (I forgot to request it as we'd been in Turkey for a year)
As usual different islands each interpret the rules differently but I think they were more concerned about the tired and bedraggled group of Syrians who had landed on their doorstep that night.

 

[V1701]

For anyone who hasn't already got their DEKPA, here's my experience...
I tried to get a DEKPA earlier this month, firstly needing to get an e-paravolo (30 euros) from the local council office or "ken" (pronounced "kep"). This, I think, is because the PP have been stopped from taking any monies for anything as so much of it was being back-pocketed. Being based in Porto Heli, where there is no kep, went up the road to Kranidi, where there is a kep, which is very hard to find. They need to print the e-paravolo which you then take to the bank to pay. But their printer is broken so there follows a long phone conversation with the kep Ermioni staff and off to kep Ermioni (where the printer is working and they are expecting me) I go. Then off to the bank to pay it I go (not all banks can accept payment of e-paravolo). Then I visit the PP in Porto Heli, with the receipt from the bank for my e-paravolo, to get my DEKPA. The PP in PH have run out of DEKPAs so they suggest I go to Piraeus. I tell them I'm not going to Piraeus so they kindly give me some sort of cover letter and tell me I'm OK with them, which is good. Presumably the letter says something along the lines of "he tried to get a DEKPA and he had his e-Paravolo receipt but we'd run out of DEKPAs". PP PH then suggest I go back to kep Ermioni to get a refund or try to negotiate an extension on the e-Paravolo as it is only valid for 24 hours. At this point I threw the towel in & went sailing...:encouragement:

 

[OldBawley]

Amazing story,

I now heard ( again hear-say ) that the Port Police in Poros Saronic is out of stamps ( ????!!! ) and send sailors to Aegina to get a stamp.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Correct ! you could not make it up.

 

[Olianta]

I did check-in at Mirina port, Limnos in July and did check-out in Messolonghi in late September and showed my insurance in English language only without having any problems. According to Noonsite DEKPA is required for boats over 10 meters.
Rumen

 

[macd]

According to Noonsite DEKPA is required for boats over 10 meters.

Then Noonsite is out of date. DEKPAs are now required for boats over 7m, as post #5 and the link in post #7 make clear.

 

[Tony Cross]

For anyone who hasn't already got their DEKPA, here's my experience...
I tried to get a DEKPA earlier this month, firstly needing to get an e-paravolo (30 euros) from the local council office or "ken" (pronounced "kep"). This, I think, is because the PP have been stopped from taking any monies for anything as so much of it was being back-pocketed. Being based in Porto Heli, where there is no kep, went up the road to Kranidi, where there is a kep, which is very hard to find. They need to print the e-paravolo which you then take to the bank to pay. But their printer is broken so there follows a long phone conversation with the kep Ermioni staff and off to kep Ermioni (where the printer is working and they are expecting me) I go. Then off to the bank to pay it I go (not all banks can accept payment of e-paravolo). Then I visit the PP in Porto Heli, with the receipt from the bank for my e-paravolo, to get my DEKPA. The PP in PH have run out of DEKPAs so they suggest I go to Piraeus. I tell them I'm not going to Piraeus so they kindly give me some sort of cover letter and tell me I'm OK with them, which is good. Presumably the letter says something along the lines of "he tried to get a DEKPA and he had his e-Paravolo receipt but we'd run out of DEKPAs". PP PH then suggest I go back to kep Ermioni to get a refund or try to negotiate an extension on the e-Paravolo as it is only valid for 24 hours. At this point I threw the towel in & went sailing...:encouragement:

There was some doubt, when the TPP (cruising tax) was being designed, about whether a DEKPA would be required at all. The TPP receipt could have been the only document an EU-flagged yacht would require. Consequently no new orders for DEKPAs were sent to the printers. In the interim, those with DEKPAs only needed to get them stamped once every 365 days (to coincide with the expected TPP). As is often the case, especially in Greece, minds were changed and the DEKPA retained. Sadly the already low supplies of DEKPAs was exacerbated by the failure to print more and many PP offices ran out some months ago. I still don't know whether they will print more and that's because the final decisions on the TPP have not yet been made. Until they do actually cancel the TPP (and it's looking like they will) this situation (lack of DEKPA forms) may well continue.

The broken printer is a symptom of a country that is broke. Partly trough their own stupidity and mismanagement, and a culture that does not sit well with modern western business ethics, but also though the intransigence and stupidity of the lenders, Greece cannot afford the luxury of replacement printers and the like.

Probably your first mistake was to do this in Porto Heli, the CA has made a number of complaints to the Greek Ministry of Shipping about the actions and activities of the PP there.

 

[RichardS]

When I cleared into Greece for the first ever time last year the Port Police had run out of Dekpa. I asked if the nice lady could write it down somewhere in case I had problems later. She wrote something in Greek on one of the various bits of paper but when I tried to take it she said that bit was for her to keep!

When I asked how that helped me she said "Don't worry, everyone knows that at Gouvia we've got no Dekpas". No one seems to give a damn!

Richard

 

[DownWest]

Anybody know what applies if you are under 7mt? I think Spain also has requirements over 7mt, as in Marinas wanting proof of insurance. But if, say, my boat is 6.5mt or 5.70mt, what happens?
DW

 

[macd]

Anybody know what applies if you are under 7mt? I think Spain also has requirements over 7mt, as in Marinas wanting proof of insurance. But if, say, my boat is 6.5mt or 5.70mt, what happens?
DW

Nothing happens, I should think. As Tony wrote, the minimum size for DEKPA requirement was reduced from 10 to 7 metres solely because 7m was to be the lower limit of TPP liability and this was a relatively simple way of identifying and recording TPP vessels. A 6.5m boat would not be subject to TPP (if it ever was levied).