Carmel2
Well-Known Member
Looks like the new mob have an unlikely ally http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/01/26/uk-greece-election-idUKKBN0KY00120150126
Greece - New management !
- Thread starter ribrage
- Start date
Looks like the new mob have an unlikely ally http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/01/26/uk-greece-election-idUKKBN0KY00120150126
tri39
Well-Known Member
There was significant yacht flight from Italy over the last couple of years!
Robert Peston is asking why the markets are not panicking more about Greece.
The answer seems to be that "reason" is expected to prevail, or bizarrely that the euro would be better off without Greece!!!
I'm sure we'll now have protracted brinkmanship and the imminent likelihood of "Grexit" is low.
But if the the fan starts spraying then your yacht can be sailed away from luxury taxes can't it.
Unless payment is required before launch!!!
Robert Peston is asking why the markets are not panicking more about Greece.
The answer seems to be that "reason" is expected to prevail, or bizarrely that the euro would be better off without Greece!!!
I'm sure we'll now have protracted brinkmanship and the imminent likelihood of "Grexit" is low.
But if the the fan starts spraying then your yacht can be sailed away from luxury taxes can't it.
Unless payment is required before launch!!!
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charles_reed
Well-Known Member
What a strange request - what makes you say that?
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Of course the "new management" in Greece is a significant factor for those of us that are based in that country.
I'm of the opinion (with some information from within) that Samaras was having such a hard time proving to the troika that Greece was conforming to its promises that it wasn't just a whim upon which he called the election - more like sucks to you, the troika and the Greek voters. See how you like dealing face to face with each other.
Our biggest risk is that of a miscalculation in the coming negotiation showdown between the troika and Syriza-led government and Greece being ejected from the € and most of their banks folding (they are, after all on life-support from the ECB). By far the most intransigent voice is that of Lagarde and the IMF, the EC side are already announcing that they'll support a review of the payment terms but no write-off.
I don't think we'll see a major change - "the politicians come and go, but we're always here" as one senior civil servant said.
The collection of the boat-tax will be accelerated, probably collected by the local tax-office who won't take anything but cash, collection of harbour dues will go from the Port Police to Local Authorities and rise (I'd guess about x3). Long-term liveaboards will anchor even more and charteres won't even notice the extra charges.
Still - as already pointed out we can always vote with our keels!
Being Greece anything could, of course, happen.
I'm of the opinion (with some information from within) that Samaras was having such a hard time proving to the troika that Greece was conforming to its promises that it wasn't just a whim upon which he called the election - more like sucks to you, the troika and the Greek voters. See how you like dealing face to face with each other.
Our biggest risk is that of a miscalculation in the coming negotiation showdown between the troika and Syriza-led government and Greece being ejected from the € and most of their banks folding (they are, after all on life-support from the ECB). By far the most intransigent voice is that of Lagarde and the IMF, the EC side are already announcing that they'll support a review of the payment terms but no write-off.
I don't think we'll see a major change - "the politicians come and go, but we're always here" as one senior civil servant said.
The collection of the boat-tax will be accelerated, probably collected by the local tax-office who won't take anything but cash, collection of harbour dues will go from the Port Police to Local Authorities and rise (I'd guess about x3). Long-term liveaboards will anchor even more and charteres won't even notice the extra charges.
Still - as already pointed out we can always vote with our keels!
Being Greece anything could, of course, happen.
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
Unless they change the current law no bill can be paid in cash in Greece over €500 so it won't be possible for over 12m vessels to pay for a years tax in cash - anywhere.
The collection of harbour dues has already been moved from the port police to the local municipality, that happened in August last year! I think more ports will designate themselves as marinas (by employing a third-party to collect the fees). This will allow them to charge whatever they like, marinas don't have to stick to the standard port fees.
Davy_S
Well-Known Member
I have just had an email from Alexi, he has promised that the sun will shine this summer, that the sea will be warm and crystal clear, most of your anchors will hold and if you drink enough local wine, you will still fall over. Most of all ..Don't Panic!
Carmel2
Well-Known Member
Tony, what's the vibe like? Does joe public seem buoyed up about the result or not?
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
Actually I have no idea. I broke my left hip two weeks ago so we're in an apartment a little out of town, and will be for another 3 weeks at least. I'm hobbling around on crutches but I can't risk trying to get down the steep and badly concreted driveway, so I'm sort of in prison! I've not spoken to any locals since the election, but the Greek who owns the apartment we're in (he has an English wife - and no it's not Bousoulas apartments) is pleased that they're not looking at more of the same. He doesn't know quite what will happen but he thinks new ideas are needed because more of the same clearly wan't working.
Carmel2
Well-Known Member
Get well soon, and no dancing!
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
I asked my surgeon if I'd be able to dance once I'd recovered. When she said "yes" I told her she was amazing, because I couldn't dance before ! Boom boom.
catmandoo
Well-Known Member
Mass exodus when they declare martial law
For those of us in Greece it is a very boaty matter
They have suffered certainly, but entirely as a result of joining a single currency, (and their own governments profligacy with pet projects) a political instrument used to control nation states, not an economic one.New management? As far as I know Frau Merkel is still in charge
The weakness of the Euro combined with lower air fares will hopefully make things a little less expensive for us. I hope that's all that changes. The consequences of an uncontrolled exit for the Greek people are too horrible to even contemplate - they've suffered enough. Personally I hope that a deal can be done.
If Greece rejects the Euro for the drachma it will be rocky for a while but they will be in control, exports cheaper, tourism bouyant again, can survive and be a success which is what the eurocrats in brussels are most fearfull of and afraid of, people running their own affairs is anathema to them.Other nations could follow, the eurocrats nightmare.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
An interesting reply - spoken like a trained €conomist.
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
Actually I think he (Sarnia) is right. The nightmare scenario for the EU would be Greece outside the Euro and recovering, that really would start the dominoes falling. I'm pretty sure that Alexis Tsipras knows that, and that's his chief bargaining chip.
It's clear that the EU dislikes democracy, the will of the people keeps getting in the way of the "Great European dream". So what they absolutely do not want to see is the will of the people working out better than the diktats of Brussels.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Whilst I go along with the 2nd part of your statement, I can't with the first.
Greece, to get out of its current debt burden will have to repudiate them. That will be economically bearable for Germany and shrugged off by the ECB but will be nigh insupportable for Italy and Spain. In any case the continuation of the Greek economy is predicated on the with-held last tranche of the bail-out.
The Greeks still have the lowest direct taxation of all the original members of the EU - so where is Tsiparis going to get all this money to pay for his austerity-busting ideas?
Will the great Lending Public world-wide be prepared to lend their savings to a country which since it's inception has defaulted about ever 6th year? I'm sure Sarnia and Tony Cross will be the first in the queue ;-)
The truth is that the Greeks have wanted to enjoy all the goodies they've seen in the rest of the EU but felt disinclined to pay for it - their successive governments have borrowed to fund the shortfall. This borrowing spree came to an end in 2009, and the first screws of reality have proved too much and they have voted to return to Never-Never Land.
Tsipras MAY get away with repudiating the debt - he'll not be able to fund the goodies he's promised with just the Greeks paying for it.
In fact not much to lose - the total debt is virtually unrepayable - but the Greeks, if they do go it alone, will have to tighten their belts considerably compared to now.
Perhaps he'll persuade Putin to ride to his rescue? I think Venezuela won't be able to...
I just hope we aren't going to see a return to the Greece of 1945-6 or even the early 70s.
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tri39
Well-Known Member
Talks with the Troika representative seem to have come to an early end! Greek finance minister said he didn't want the next tranche of support since it was only to pay interest on the debt!! Rumours Drachma are being printed, true or false!?
Melody
Well-Known Member
Po
I think you can pay any amount in cash to government offices and port authorities, just not to private companies or individuals. In fact, I'm not sure that you can pay port authorities any way but in cash.
I think you can pay any amount in cash to government offices and port authorities, just not to private companies or individuals. In fact, I'm not sure that you can pay port authorities any way but in cash.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
He's certainly making the best of the hand he's been dealt - ie he's refusing to see the messengers of the troika and demanding to see their bosses. A point made painfully and abundantly clear to Jeroen Dijsselbloem by Varoufakis
He's already ensured he's out of line with the EU in refusing to go along with the latest Russia sanctions and even gone so far to demand how the EU foreign ministers dared to send the note to Russia, outlining the new sanctions without involving Greece.
He's probably trying to ensure the €uro-area break their own rule that there's no going back from the joint currency and chuck them out. However for long enough Crne Goro have been using the € without being members.
At least that will give him some of the moral high ground - the ECB will probably just stop sending any more money to Greece, which is essential to support their banks.
Rather like one of my 5-year old grandsons throwing himself on the ground and yelling at the top of his voice, refusing to listen to or discuss with parents. Banking, perhaps, on the fact that the Frau Doktor has never been a mother.
Certainly don't think any drachmae are being printed - the panto has month's to run yet.
When negotiating you always make the other side come to you - admirably illustrated.
He's already ensured he's out of line with the EU in refusing to go along with the latest Russia sanctions and even gone so far to demand how the EU foreign ministers dared to send the note to Russia, outlining the new sanctions without involving Greece.
He's probably trying to ensure the €uro-area break their own rule that there's no going back from the joint currency and chuck them out. However for long enough Crne Goro have been using the € without being members.
At least that will give him some of the moral high ground - the ECB will probably just stop sending any more money to Greece, which is essential to support their banks.
Rather like one of my 5-year old grandsons throwing himself on the ground and yelling at the top of his voice, refusing to listen to or discuss with parents. Banking, perhaps, on the fact that the Frau Doktor has never been a mother.
Certainly don't think any drachmae are being printed - the panto has month's to run yet.
When negotiating you always make the other side come to you - admirably illustrated.
grafozz
Well-Known Member
I had a guest onboard last summer who told me that De La Rue have already printed the New Drachma ......