grapnel

[joeh]

hi all
has any one have experience of use with a folding grapnel anchor in sand, mud, rock, coral ?
i am considering acquiring a 6 kg one for my 30 footer as a second anchor.
any comments most appreciated

 

[Bajansailor]

A grapnel will be pretty much useless in sand and mud, and if it hooks in tenaciously in rock or coral you will probably have a difficult time retrieving it.

You would probably be better off with any other type of small anchor, eg a Bruce, CQR, Delta, Danforth, Manson, Rocna or Spade (listed in alphabetical order - have I forgotten any?).

 

[craigsmith]

As bajansailor says.

So far as coral goes, if it's live coral you shouldn't be putting any anchor anywhere near it.

For mud and sand that's why people like us spend long hours developing highly efficient general purpose anchors.

For rock you're in a lottery, use any good single-piece anchor with a single fluke and a strong tip, and use a retrieval line or risk losing it.

 

[Relax]

Don't entirely agree with either of the above two posters.

I have a 10kg folding grapnel bought as a second anchor for my (then) Sadler 25. This has fairly wide flukes and with 10m of admitedly heavy chain is surprisingly good in mud or sand. It does have the benefit of being very easy to stow wiht its chain and rope rode in a gunny bag in the cockpit locker.

I have kept it as a kedge for the current boat (37ft, 7t................) but not as yet had a chance to use it.

 

[vyv_cox]

I anchored my Sadler 34 on a grapnel weighing about 2 lb in the Canal du Midi! The locks had closed for lunch, I was in a short stretch between locks with absolutely no mooring options. So I used the grapnel that we normally carry in the dinghy. Worked a treat on soft mud for an hour.

 

[vyv_cox]

You would probably be better off with any other type of small anchor, eg a Bruce, CQR, Delta, Danforth, Manson, Rocna or Spade (listed in alphabetical order - have I forgotten any?).

Yes, if by second anchor the OP means kedge, then Fortress is the number one choice IMHO. Has all the good characteristics required and its bad ones (self tripping, poor reset) don't matter in a kedge.

 

[cimo]

Yes, if by second anchor the OP means kedge, then Fortress is the number one choice IMHO. Has all the good characteristics required and its bad ones (self tripping, poor reset) don't matter in a kedge.

don't follow quite follow the logic here vyv, why do you feel self tripping & poor reset don't matter in a kedge?

To the OP re: comments like "grapnels are useless in mud and sand" I feel should be taken lightly. don't believe that. Good practise to always fit a tripping line though. I have a grapnel as a third anchor but in reality, so far it getting more use than my kedge which is a CQR copy.

 

[prv]

don't follow quite follow the logic here vyv, why do you feel self tripping & poor reset don't matter in a kedge?

Presumably because a kedge is often used as a stern anchor along with the main anchor over the bow. So you don't swing round it, don't trip it, and don't require it to reset in a new direction. You also don't swing round it if rowing it out to pull yourself off something, or dropping it for a quick stop (unless you're right on a change of tide), other common uses for a kedge.

Pete

 

[jwilson]

hi all
has any one have experience of use with a folding grapnel anchor in sand, mud, rock, coral ?
i am considering acquiring a 6 kg one for my 30 footer as a second anchor.
any comments most appreciated

One came with a boat I once owned (as the only anchor): I found it utterly useless in sand or mud, and unreliable in rock or shingle.

Switched to a Danforth as main anchor with a quite big Fisherman as kedge, Danforth excellent for sand or mud, Fisherman better for rocks/shingle (one of my regular wait for the tide anchorages was an area of shingle, where everyone dragged from time to time.

 

[cimo]

Presumably because a kedge is often used as a stern anchor along with the main anchor over the bow. So you don't swing round it, don't trip it, and don't require it to reset in a new direction. You also don't swing round it if rowing it out to pull yourself off something, or dropping it for a quick stop (unless you're right on a change of tide), other common uses for a kedge.

Pete

understand the uses of a kedge Pete.
Although my own preference is to have ground tackle that will reset. I thought vyv's comment somewhat peculiar - not caring that your anchor doesnt reset well. (consider a 180deg wind shift while anchored bow and stern, or consider having lost the bower and then needing to use the kedge in its place until replacement).

 

[Bajansailor]

Cimo said :
"To the OP re: comments like "grapnels are useless in mud and sand" I feel should be taken lightly. don't believe that".

I dont take it lightly, because I do believe it, based on practical experiments with them - they are pretty much useless in mud and sand.

If a 2 kg Danforth (or any of the other popular anchors mentioned above) will hold infinitely more in sand or mud than say a 10 kg (or even 20 kg) grapnel, why on earth would you want to buy a grapnel?

Their only useful purpose would be for loaning to Somali pirates to use as grappeling hooks for boarding ships.

 

[cimo]

...........why on earth would you want to buy a grapnel? ..........

ah, to draw conclusions based on practical experiments as you say ?

seriously though, not optimised for sand and mud, no-one would argue that (I'm sure). but not totally useless, no, and do come into their own in rock or weed. I had occasion to use mine (2kg) with great effet to assist the the sowester bower. I'm not for changing. its another option available to us?

 

[Kelpie]

A mate of mine has a small grapnel on his sailing dinghy. We were able to tow it along quite happily under sail power on a F2 sort of a day. That was in sand.

 

[vyv_cox]

understand the uses of a kedge Pete.
Although my own preference is to have ground tackle that will reset. I thought vyv's comment somewhat peculiar - not caring that your anchor doesnt reset well. (consider a 180deg wind shift while anchored bow and stern, or consider having lost the bower and then needing to use the kedge in its place until replacement).

By reset I mean that if using it as the bower it would be required to set itself following a 180 degree change in the pull direction. 'Flat' anchors are inherently poor at this, as the chain can drag between the flukes and stock.

In your example moored bow and stern the pull direction does not change. I have been in this situation very many times and my Fortress has never failed to hold. However I have dragged twice on wind or tide changes when using the Fortress as the bower and I would be very reluctant to use it as such again. I carry a Delta as a spare bower for this reason.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Agree with Vyv's experience with the Fortress. If you look around you will see quite a few anchors of this type with bent shanks indicating their reluctance to veer ...until they do and then have to reset.
I would raise a lone voice for the Bruce anchor here as it can veer perfectly. It just seems to shuffle around without losing its hold on the sea bed.
........but I don't want to start another anchor debate!!!!!!

 

[charles_reed]

Cimo said :
"To the OP re: comments like "grapnels are useless in mud and sand" I feel should be taken lightly. don't believe that".

I dont take it lightly, because I do believe it, based on practical experiments with them - they are pretty much useless in mud and sand.

If a 2 kg Danforth (or any of the other popular anchors mentioned above) will hold infinitely more in sand or mud than say a 10 kg (or even 20 kg) grapnel, why on earth would you want to buy a grapnel?

Their only useful purpose would be for loaning to Somali pirates to use as grappeling hooks for boarding ships.

Agreed - mine is used for fishing things off the seabed or digging into the sand to prevent the dinghy taking off a sandy beach.

As a serious anchor i don't believe in it...