Grab rail refurb or replacement

[DennisF]

The grabrails on my Westerly Berwick have been sadly neglected by previous owners and are looking rather shabby with fairly deep cracks and areas of blackening in some of the cracks. They are now off the boat as headlining is being replaced, and I am considering the options:

1. The obvious choice is to replace but this would be a custom job as the standard lengths today have a different pitch and are too short (2 grabrails are 7 spans). The boat is on the Orwell so I've approached 2 boatyards who think it would cost £500-£600. Ouch......

2. Is there any merit in refurbishing the existing ones with oxalic acid +/- sanding and teak oil? I can't help thinking that I he cracks are a bit deep for this to work.

3. A friend is very experienced as a woodworker, so having him make new ones is also an option, but we are having difficulty obtained teak - does anyone have recommendations?

 

[bitbaltic]

2. Is there any merit in refurbishing the existing ones with oxalic acid +/- sanding and teak oil? I can't help thinking that I he cracks are a bit deep for this to work.

I tried acid renovator plus teak oil on my quite shabby grabrails at the start of the season and it had virtually no effect. I had an excellent result though by scraping off the patina with a B&Q scraper which removed say a millimetre or so all over, then finishing with three coats of woodskin. This might be a way forward although I am no expert on woodwork and your rails sound like they are in a worse state than mine were. Some pictures might help.

 

[DennisF]

I'm at the boat on Sunday and will grab some photos then

 

[Concerto]

If you think they are not worth repairing, then you can get new ones made by KJ Howells.
http://www.kjhowells.com/
They will match exactly to fit either by plans or using one as a template. They can also supply the teak if you want to make them yourself.

No connection except as a satisfied customer.

 

[Tranona]

Sand to remove all the staining and mould etc then use Oxalid acid to clean up. If the cracks do not affect the structural integrity then you could fill them with epoxy thickened with some of the dust from sanding and some wood fibres. refinish with International Woodskin.

As suggested Howells is a good source for teak.

 

[Yngmar]

Could do with some photos. There's two aspects here, strength, and looking pretty. For looking pretty, sanding until healthy teak appears, then scraping to bring out the grain, then fillering and then putting 5+ coats of tung oil varnish on will make them beautiful again, and protect them from further weathering. Sanding can be reduced by "restoring" the teak colour first, although you'll then need many coats to get back to a smooth finish (filler won't look as nice as the grain is covered).

For strength sanding is bad, as you lose thickness, but it may not be too bad depending on condition. If it is really bad (deep cracks) you can do a reasonable job of reinforcing them by using clear epoxy and coating them in a layer of fibreglass. Then varnishing over that to protect it from UV. When done right (thoroughly wetting the glass and not leaving any air pockets), the glass will be nigh invisible, giving you both looks and strength (at the cost of a lot of work though - lots of annoying curved pieces there). I've done this on a flat piece (cracked teak instrument pod cover) and it worked well, although you must wait for the epoxy to be really really really cured before you apply varnish, else you'll get wrinkles.

 

[DennisF]

Could do with some photos. There's two aspects here, strength, and looking pretty. For looking pretty, sanding until healthy teak appears, then scraping to bring out the grain, then fillering and then putting 5+ coats of tung oil varnish on will make them beautiful again, and protect them from further weathering. Sanding can be reduced by "restoring" the teak colour first, although you'll then need many coats to get back to a smooth finish (filler won't look as nice as the grain is covered).

For strength sanding is bad, as you lose thickness, but it may not be too bad depending on condition. If it is really bad (deep cracks) you can do a reasonable job of reinforcing them by using clear epoxy and coating them in a layer of fibreglass. Then varnishing over that to protect it from UV. When done right (thoroughly wetting the glass and not leaving any air pockets), the glass will be nigh invisible, giving you both looks and strength (at the cost of a lot of work though - lots of annoying curved pieces there). I've done this on a flat piece (cracked teak instrument pod cover) and it worked well, although you must wait for the epoxy to be really really really cured before you apply varnish, else you'll get wrinkles.

I'm at the boat tomorrow and will post some photos then

 

[pvb]

I'd be tempted to ask Howells, as already suggested by Concerto. As wewll as their made-to-measure service, note that they have ready-made 6-grip rails 1800mm long for £59, which sounds good value. A bit shorter than your 7-grip rails, which are probably just over 2000mm long, but they'd look OK.

 

[DennisF]

I'd be tempted to ask Howells, as already suggested by Concerto. As wewll as their made-to-measure service, note that they have ready-made 6-grip rails 1800mm long for £59, which sounds good value. A bit shorter than your 7-grip rails, which are probably just over 2000mm long, but they'd look OK.

I'd rather replace like with like to avoid making more holes in the deck. I did ring Howell's but the chap I spoke to said they did not make bespoke grabrails. I'll give them another call just to make sure I wasn't given duff info.

 

[pvb]

I did ring Howell's but the chap I spoke to said they did not make bespoke grabrails. I'll give them another call just to make sure I wasn't given duff info.

Their website and catalogue make no mention of made-to-measure grabrails, so maybe Concerto's suggestion was incorrect.

 

[lw395]

An alternative might be to get stainless ones made.
Grab rails are safety equipment not just decorative trim.
I saw a boat the other day with stainless tubes mounted on plastic(?) chocks, which I thought was a neat solution and easy to make, but would only look right on a modern boat.

 

[richardbrennan]

Have you tried Trafalgar Yacht Services in Fareham? They keep all sorts of bits for Westerlys and may be able to help.

 

[pvb]

Have you tried Trafalgar Yacht Services in Fareham? They keep all sorts of bits for Westerlys and may be able to help.

I checked their website before posting earlier, and their longest grabrail is only 4-grip and is £125.

 

[JumbleDuck]

1. The obvious choice is to replace but this would be a custom job as the standard lengths today have a different pitch and are too short (2 grabrails are 7 spans). The boat is on the Orwell so I've approached 2 boatyards who think it would cost £500-£600. Ouch......

I expect that's mostly labour. If you are happy to do woodwork yourself. it should cost much less. Robbins will sell you strips of teak of the right width and depth. 75mm x 38mm, to hazard a guess, is just shy of £30/m. (http://www.robbins.co.uk/pdf/Marine_Pricelist.pdf) Rough out the arches with a bandsaw or even a jigsaw. Work vigorously with spokeshave and/or sander. Done.


Alternatively, you could go for the pier-and-strip design: block of teak at each hole, strip along the top of them.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I had amazing results by just sanding and applying 3 coats of yacht varnish to my neglected mahogany rails. You need to be sure they're not compromised structurally though.

 

[Quandary]

Grab rails are really easy to make from teak, not so easy from other hardwoods particularly Iroko. My first two boats were bought as hulls for fitting out, I was able to buy a baulk of teak about 250mmx150mmx 2.5m and got it sawn up into various thicknesses for rails, lippings, edgings etc. then run through a planer. To make a pair of rails I took a length of 150mmx32mm. Marked cutouts carefully and took them out with a jigsaw before I sawed down the middle, ( the cutout pieces were kept for making grab handles) Planed the straight edge to a curved profile and then went at the ends and cutouts, first with a rasp and then with a sanding attachment for a power drill comprising a sanding belt around a cylinder of foam with a spindle through it. Finished by hand sanding, I was satisfied that my efforts were as good as proprietary versions despite the crude tools. I fixed them from the top and used a cutter attachment to make pellets from the same timber, align the grain and they disappear.
Very easy to get a good job with a bit of care and patience and a satisfying project. Mark out carefully check twice, once you have the cutouts it is just a matter of patiently removing corners until you get a smooth round profile.
You will save a lot more today than I did back in the mid seventies, worth giving it a go?

 

[DennisF]

As requested here are some photos of the grabrails. We are going to try some oxalic acid soaks and see what they look like after that

 

[Tranona]

They will come up fine with a bit of hard graft, sanding to get rid of the surface and then oxalid acid to get rid of most of the staining. Fill the splits with epoxy as suggested earlier. Pour neat epoxy in first then thickened. Clamp the sides with T clamps. 3 coats of International Woodskin and thy will look fine.

 

[JumbleDuck]

They will come up fine with a bit of hard graft, sanding to get rid of the surface and then oxalid acid to get rid of most of the staining. Fill the splits with epoxy as suggested earlier. Pour neat epoxy in first then thickened. Clamp the sides with T clamps. 3 coats of International Woodskin and thy will look fine.

I wouldn't be quite as sanguine about filler - it might fill (ha ha) the gaps for a bit but I doubt it will hold them together for long. However, I completely agree that these are quite good enough for re-use. My Jouster ones were worse and came up beautifully with a bit of work.

 

[Yngmar]

Those aren't in that bad shape. Mostly they're just weathered and have a lot of algae/dirt on them (if you must leave teak bare, at least spray it with some cheap fungicide to prevent that). Clean them with slightly soapy water and a soft(!) brush or sponge (clothes brush if anyone remembers those) first, then you can bleach them. Oxalic acid may work to some degree. I've been told hydrogen peroxide works better, but have found by accident (shopping bag spill) that thin household bleach (hydrochloric acid) works very well indeed - try on a underside first, and maybe thin it, it acts very quickly. Then sand/scrape to smoothen the weathering and fill the cracks with slightly thickened epoxy. Don't smear the epoxy on the rest (sand it off after curing if you did), grab rails are bound to get worn and chipped and would benefit more from a deeply penetrating tung oil varnish than from an epoxy coat.

You can then apply varnish. My choice would be five coats of Le Tonkinois (follow the instructions), although Epifanes Clear Varnish would probably work much the same. It'll look lovely and protect the wood from water ingress even when you inevitably bang a boathook on it - simply brush on some more varnish over any gouged areas if you do get them.