Grab Bag contents: three questions

[Yngmar]

Would replace Müsli bars with a proper emergency ration. Much longer expiration date and maximum calories per volume. Not to mention the stuff tastes so awful you'll only eat it if you're really starving, making it last much longer! Basically real world dwarf bread (Pratchett).

Hadn't heard about the dye packs before, seems useful - thanks.

Mine also has a crank/solar powered radio/flashlight/usb-charger inside a zip-loc bag.

 

[prv]

Its called a G R A B bag not a bag to fill as you leave.

Agreed - although I do have an additional empty dry bag folded up in an outside pocket of the main one, to collect extra stuff (mostly warm clothing) if the opportunity does arise. There's nothing essential that has to be added if not.

Pete

 

[tcm]

3 minutes sounds quite luxurious. Thing is, you try all sorts of things and the actual crossover to "abandon ship" from "ok, I'll just try this" isn't always clear cut... until it really IS clear cut e.g. as with fire. Likewise with Mayday call.

A french gendarme encouraged me to get a proper big fie CO2 extinguisher so you'd have a chance of going to get people, rather than yerknow, leaving them cos the fire looks iffy.

I have the grab bags reasonably close to hand, and water bottles only 80% filled so that they float. A few can be loosely roped together if they're the 5-litre ones with appropriate top.

It's fine to have a close relationship with the grab bags and not be too grimly serious about it all. So, for example, as we approach land, I might start eating some of the muesli bars.

Note that all the drills in the world still might not prepare people for the real thing. In one MOB drill in Canaries we fetched fenders etc etc ... and then unannounced I jumped in myself. A very qualified YM sail+power crew just stood at the stern as if in shock, watching open-mouthed as a I floated away.

 

[Resolution]

Seasickness - forget the stugeron because you will probably become seasick very quickly in a raft in any sea. Once seasick your stomach will not absorb the pills. Try the scopalamine patches instead. Or, if you have French friends, suppositories.

 

[geem]

When we packed ours for an Atlantic crossing we realised that by the time you put everything together that has appeared on this post you need a suitcase not a grab bag. You need to be able to lift it quickly and get out fast. We split our bag down into two. Essential and nice to have. We also left a 2gallon water container strapped to the life raft canister with a
little air in the top so it would float. We had plbs and two Epirbs on board. One in each trap bag plus the Delorme sat comms on the bracket in the cockpit ready to take as well. Far better in my opinion than the Epirbs if you make it to the life raft.

 

[PaulJ]

I wouldn't disagree with anything said so far however we had a scan of our passports/ships papers on a CD (more likely to survive an extended dunking) and kept them permanently in the Grab bag. Also, if you plan to cross an ocean you could be out there for a considerable time so it is a good idea to put some basic fishing gear in the bag.

Paul

 

[prv]

we had a scan of our passports/ships papers on a CD (more likely to survive an extended dunking)

That's an interesting idea.

I have a colour copy of my passport, debit card, and driving license (hire car?) run through an ordinary office laminator and placed at the bottom of the bag taking up no space. Obviously you don't need them to survive, but they might just save a little inconvenience after being landed in France for example. No need for ship's papers in the bag; the non-reproducible ones are saved as scans on my computer at home.

Pete

 

[mjcoon]

I wouldn't disagree with anything said so far however we had a scan of our passports/ships papers on a CD (more likely to survive an extended dunking) and kept them permanently in the Grab bag. Also, if you plan to cross an ocean you could be out there for a considerable time so it is a good idea to put some basic fishing gear in the bag.

Paul

I'd have thought that making a photocopy of the relevant pages of the passport and laminating them would be more accessible than a CD (which is going to require a computer).

Years ago I dropped my passport into the harbour when crossing to/from a charter yacht. Although I retrieved it quickly I was startled to find that the ink ran immediately. Maybe that is/was an anti-forgery measure. I have no idea if it still applies to modern passports.

Mike.

 

[dom]

As I suspected a bit of a rethink will be required on my part, including but not confined to:

• Some suggestion will be easy to implement such as prv and other's suggestion of using two bags and keeping copies of some personal effects
• A friend of mine in shipping tells me that a SART transponder is by far the most reliable way of being found once people know you're in trouble and vaguely know where you are http://www.cactusnav.com/mcmurdo-rescue-sart-p-6847.html
• He also suggests that the addition of proper survival suits needs serious consideration
• Getting reliably under the three minute target for off-watch winter emergency is going to be tough.
• I'd forgotten that tablets such as Stugeron would be useless once seasickness set in.
• Good point that muesli bars are a snack, not a long-term food source - an important issue far offshore
• I'm going to relocate grab bag from downstairs to cockpit locker

Might visit the London Boat Show after all!

 

[mm42]

Rather than a CD, which is pretty easy to destroy, I keep copies of my passport, driving licence, insurance, tickets etc on dropbox, that way as long as I can get to an internet connected computer or tablet I can get them.

 

[dom]

I have a colour copy of my passport, debit card, and driving license (hire car?) run through an ordinary office laminator and placed at the bottom of the bag taking up no space. Obviously you don't need them to survive, but they might just save a little inconvenience after being landed in France for example. No need for ship's papers in the bag; the non-reproducible ones are saved as scans on my computer at home.

As a matter of interest, are there security considerations in keeping such comprehensive details on a a CD, Dropbox, etc. For example, is it wise to encrypt the data?

 

[prv]

As a matter of interest, are there security considerations in keeping such comprehensive details on a a CD, Dropbox, etc. For example, is it wise to encrypt the data?

A physical CD is equivalent to the laminated paper really, so no special precautions needed there. I don't use Dropbox, but I probably would have a read of their security arrangements before uploading such things. It's fairly common for online backup and storage services to encrypt the data client-side before uploading it, though some of them then store the key on the server which isn't as secure as keeping it local - but the latter's not much good if the plan is to download them in an emergency with nothing that's not in your head.

That said, the odds of someone getting their hands on your passport and card details from Dropbox are very low even if not encrypted, certainly less than the risk of them being physically stolen or your card details being obtained in a more targeted manner (or mishandled by a small business who've never heard of PCI-DSS). A card can be re-issued and the fraudulent charges refunded, it's annoying for a month or so having to change the details everywhere but otherwise no big deal. A criminal is unlikely to be able to use a scan of your passport for its official purpose - you'll have enough difficulty trying to do the same yourself, at best it might speed up the issue of temporary documents or a replacement - but I suppose it might help in a deliberate identity-theft attack.

Pete

 

[Strolls]

I'd have thought that making a photocopy of the relevant pages of the passport and laminating them would be more accessible than a CD (which is going to require a computer).

Considering we're discussing the circumstances that you've survived a drowning, having abandoned your yacht, I'm not sure that access to a computer is a primary concern.

Presumably documents are a concern after you've been taken to a lifeboat station, or when your lack of a passport is causing a customs official to look at you sceptically - if you explain "my yacht sank" and they refuse to let you access a computer, then you're probably heading to Guantanamo, anyway.

Better to have a wide selection of regularly updated identity documents that you can access from any internet-connected computer, than a couple of out of date laminated photocopies.

 

[michael_w]

SWMBO and I usually sail double handed. Last Atlantic Circuit I bought a couple of ex North Sea helicopter survival suits. The idea being that they gave the off watch crew somthing to pull on in the event of a calamity. The on deck half being already dressed for the occasion.

We had to split our grab bag into two packages, which along with the survival suits live in a dedicated locker by the companionway.

 

[dslittle]

I wouldn't disagree with anything said so far however we had a scan of our passports/ships papers on a CD (more likely to survive an extended dunking) and kept them permanently in the Grab bag. Paul

Dropbox is great for the same and accessible from any computer. That is where we have kept our 'important' docs.

 

[dslittle]

I wouldn't disagree with anything said so far however we had a scan of our passports/ships papers on a CD (more likely to survive an extended dunking) and kept them permanently in the Grab bag. Paul

Dropbox is great for the same and accessible from any computer. That is where we have kept our 'important' docs.

Edit. Not only a double post but already mentioned. No more wine for me...

 

[Peroo]

A thought - we had a small bag next to the grab bag that contained ring pull tins of stuff - eg, beans, veg, etc - you never know!!

Easy to eat - may not to be every ones cup of tea, but had all sorts of good nutritious stuff in them in the event!

 

[bbg]

As I suspected a bit of a rethink will be required on my part, including but not confined to:

• Some suggestion will be easy to implement such as prv and other's suggestion of using two bags and keeping copies of some personal effects
• A friend of mine in shipping tells me that a SART transponder is by far the most reliable way of being found once people know you're in trouble and vaguely know where you are http://www.cactusnav.com/mcmurdo-rescue-sart-p-6847.html
• He also suggests that the addition of proper survival suits needs serious consideration
• Getting reliably under the three minute target for off-watch winter emergency is going to be tough.
• I'd forgotten that tablets such as Stugeron would be useless once seasickness set in.
• Good point that muesli bars are a snack, not a long-term food source - an important issue far offshore
• I'm going to relocate grab bag from downstairs to cockpit locker

Might visit the London Boat Show after all!

It really depends what your intended cruising range is. If you are cruising coastally (and I include cross-channel or to Ireland, for example) your needs are going to be different than if you do Plymouth to La Coruna. If you are cruising coastally, all you really need is a PLB (which will probably be on one of you anyway - I keep mine on me at all times) and a HH radio would be nice. You would be unlikely to spend more than a 8 hours in a liferaft if you had a PLB or EPIRB with GPS. You don't need anything to survive for 8 hours other than sufficient warmth. I think your original list sounds about right, although you have included more water and food than I think is necessary. Supplemented with the personal papers, keys, phones, that is a good idea. Maybe a signal mirror. Edit - and sunscreen. I really think a hand-operated desalinator is unnecessary if you have a PLB or EPIRB.

I would agree with the torches, although I think 3 is overkill. One torch and one waterproof head lamp will do fine. Put them on top of everything else so they are the first things you touch when you reach in.

Even crossing the Atlantic you are unlikely to be in the raft more than a few days - 2? 3? 4? - if you have managed to set off the PLB/EPIRB.

PLBs transmit on the SART frequency as well as the GMDSS frequency, so you don't need a dedicated SART transmitter (or AIS in my opinion). PLB should be enough.

Edit - this might help you. For the Minis that race solo across the Atlantic, this is what they are required to have. It might give some guidance.

"E-3-a A dedicated rigid waterproof container shall be equipped with a minimum 4 m long rope with a handle or a snaphook at the bitter end. This container must be marked SURVIVAL with the boat number and must have a reflective strip. It must contain the safety equipment defined in paragraph E-15.

E-15 SURVIVAL CONTAINER
1 knife
Survival food (mini. 500 gr for each crew)
1 signaling mirror
1 waterproof torch
Fishing equipment
6 Parachute flares
4 Automatic red hand flares
2 Floating smoke signals
1 handheld VHF (waterproof or in waterproof bag)
1 survival blanket (for each crew)
3 lightsticks
1 seamark dye marker (min. 40 gr)
2 tubes of sunscreen"

 

[prv]

You would be unlikely to spend more than a 8 hours in a liferaft if you had a PLB or EPIRB with GPS. You don't need anything to survive for 8 hours other than sufficient warmth. I think your original list sounds about right, although you have included more water and food than I think is necessary. Supplemented with the personal papers, keys, phones, that is a good idea. Maybe a signal mirror. Edit - and sunscreen. I really think a hand-operated desalinator is unnecessary if you have a PLB or EPIRB.

Agree - I only sail in the Channel, a crossing Cornwall to Ireland is about the furthest I realistically expect to ever go in this boat. With a PLB in the bag (poor man's EPIRB) I anticipate rescue in hours so stuff like fishing kit and watermaker is absurdly misplaced. I have a small amount of food and water for comfort rather than survival - particularly in connection with the inevitable seasickness. And one TPA and thermal hat per person, better than nothing in the no-time-to-put-on-oilies situation brought up earlier.

Apart from that, for my sailing area I've prioritised calling for help over long-term survival. So as well as the PLB which is the first line, there's a handheld VHF and a GPS, for making voice maydays and talking to rescuers once on scene. Then all the boat's flares (might as well store them here as anywhere else on board) - the nominal range of a rocket flare is several times that of a 5w handheld at sea level so they still have value. And finally a signalling mirror for daytime and a strobe light for night. All the electrical and electronic stuff takes AA batteries, and there's a sealed vacuum-pack of 2 dozen in-date Duracells.

I would agree with the torches, although I think 3 is overkill. One torch and one waterproof head lamp will do fine. Put them on top of everything else so they are the first things you touch when you reach in.

My bag's designed for four people, so although multiple torches might not be strictly necessary I thought it would be reassuring on a dark night if everyone could have their own source of light when required. So four tiny cheap single-AA LED torches, one on a string just inside the lid and the others bagged up with the other electrical kit.

PLBs transmit on the SART frequency as well as the GMDSS frequency

Errm, what? Standard SARTs respond on the radar frequencies, 9GHz or thereabouts. PLBs transmit to satellites on 406MHz, and emit a dumb homing tone on 121.5MHz; a normal merchant ship isn't going to see either of those.

Pete

 

[Sybarite]

FWIW in France on offshore category boats EPIRBS and HH VHF's will soon be obligatory.