Good Used Motor-Yacht for First Start around the Mediteranian / Italy / France / Spain

[Hurricane]

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing. I clearly said there's a cost increase for a bigger boat, and you've just said the same.

Sorry, I thought you were saying that there isn't a significant difference between berthing a 60 footer vs a 50 footer.
After re-reading, I see what you said.

 

[Skipper Felice]

If your guests are adult couples, and you value them equally, then the size and arrangement of your guest cabins becomes important. Many 50’ boats have bunks for the third cabin, whereas I’d suggest that you want 2x twins or a twin and a double of similar size. The Sq58 mentioned above would be a good option in that regard, also the later Sq50. Contrast these with the Princess 50 flybridge or Sunseeker Manhatttan 50 which have bunks in the third cabin.

YES - thank you, this is an important point I consider. Princess 50 or Sunseeker 50 or this like 50ft boats with small guest cabins are now out of consideration.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Once you're out at sea and get a few waves, bigger is always better. 60 is better than 50, and 70-80-90 is better still.
... Obviously there are cost differences.

Yes jfm, you are right. But, based on my budget for the whole project and planning for the next 10 years ... I have to stay around 52/55ft. Perhaps a well priced 58ft would be nice and with some refit I bring it to an excellent boat - I have to stay under 60ft. I experienced cruising with 45ft and 68ft boats in different conditions and of course I would not sail out of a marina along with guests and a 2m waves / wind condition.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes jfm, you are right. But, based on my budget for the whole project and planning for the next 10 years ... I have to stay around 52/55ft. Perhaps a well priced 58ft would be nice and with some refit I bring it to an excellent boat - I have to stay under 60ft. I experienced cruising with 45ft and 68ft boats in different conditions and of course I would not sail out of a marina along with guests and a 2m waves / wind condition.

You may find that you leave your marina eg Antibes in the morning in flat calm, have a lovely long lazy lunch in say Villefranche, and then face a seriously uncomfortable swell that’s built up during the day making the return journey a very different experience. So having a boat that can cope reliably with these conditions is a definite bonus. Bigger is better AOTBE.

 

[Grubble]

You may find that you leave your marina eg Antibes in the morning in flat calm, have a lovely long lazy lunch in say Villefranche, and then face a seriously uncomfortable swell that’s built up during the day making the return journey a very different experience. So having a boat that can cope reliably with these conditions is a definite bonus. Bigger is better AOTBE.

The best boat is the one you can comfortably afford to buy and run.

 

[prinex]

Well if you have 10 years time to explore the med ... maybe a trawler ? They are usually larger for the same length as a planing hull (less mooring costs), have more manageable engines (less hp - less mainteinance costs), and can cope with bad weather a bit better.

If you do some anchoring they are quieter than the equivalent length planing hulls - no chines under the hull for waves to slap on. When I was young I had one made of steel of all things, you could sleep even in a gale in that thing. Was a really budget boat too, I think I paid like 30K for it, some welding and painting, I installed a IKEA kitchen in it, and it lasted 10 years before being resold to the next young and pennyless adventurer. Logged some 3000 hours on it.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Well if you have 10 years time to explore the med ... maybe a trawler ?

If you do some anchoring they are quieter than the equivalent length planing hulls - no chines under the hull for waves to slap on. When I was young I had one made of steel of all things, you could sleep even in a gale in that thing. ... ...

Well, thanks for your statement: I have made some equal thinking.
Planning hull or some trawler comfort for a long stay on sea. This spring I was around the Netherlands and some parts of the channel heading to Texel with a great LINSSEN 45 Sedan, steel, not fast, 2 x Mercury Diesel 115 HP, with excellent comfort and outstanding reliability in windy seas.

A 50 / 55 ft trawler could be an alternative to a planning hull yacht. I know that many modern vessels have stabilizer/Seakeeper et. all but this is out of my budget.

 

[prinex]

Something like this ? Island Gypsy 52 RPH Berthon International – 7Heaven Brokerage

Island Gypsy is a name in the trawler world, 4.76 mt width for less than 16 mt length means a lot of storage space and if you are going to stay a bit you want to bring tools, spares etc with you.

Things I like: It has a portoguese bridge (very handy if the weather is suboptimal), a side door for when you dock on your side, Cat engines (which are going to run at 40% last anyway and last forever) with enough power to fight the sea when needed, 16k genset, 6000 liter diesel tank will get you around 1500 miles at maybe 9kn .... it list the aircon as "not really working", the "rescue island" (is this the name?) is expired so I guess this was on sale for a bit - maybe you can shave down some Euros from the asking price (if everything else if ok) - but consider used boats are hard to find those days. And trawlers are rare in the med.

The tender is not really what you want for longer stays, it will just do, if the crane / superstructure can handle it I would suggest a 4.20 mt tender, 40 hp and to load it sideways. Even if you are in the marina, if you are staying long times its is a hassle to move all the boat just for going for a swim. A "real" tender will enable you to zoom around to the next swim bay and be back for Spritzs/Mojtos.

Is not fancy but it ticks most of the flags, I find the kitchen arrangment a bit strange, UK Flag not sure what that means for European VAT - there are way more qualified forum members on this issue. So this would be one on my shortlist. You may wonder why I changed from trawlers to AZ55 fancy stuff - my wife absolutely hates the look of trawlers but gets drooling when she sees a SQ58 or AZ55 and similiaria. So this explains my choice..

 

[Skipper Felice]

Something like this ? Island Gypsy 52 RPH Berthon International – 7Heaven Brokerage

Island Gypsy is a name in the trawler world, 4.76 mt width for less than 16 mt length means a lot of storage space and if you are going to stay a bit you want to bring tools, spares etc with you.

Things I like: It has a portoguese bridge (very handy if the weather is suboptimal), a side door for when you dock on your side, Cat engines (which are going to run at 40% last anyway and last forever) with enough power to fight the sea when needed, 16k genset, 6000 liter diesel tank will get you around 1500 miles at maybe 9kn .... it list the aircon as "not really working", the "rescue island" (is this the name?) is expired so I guess this was on sale for a bit - maybe you can shave down some Euros from the asking price (if everything else if ok) - but consider used boats are hard to find those days. And trawlers are rare in the med.

The tender is not really what you want for longer stays, it will just do, if the crane / superstructure can handle it I would suggest a 4.20 mt tender, 40 hp and to load it sideways. Even if you are in the marina, if you are staying long times its is a hassle to move all the boat just for going for a swim. A "real" tender will enable you to zoom around to the next swim bay and be back for Spritzs/Mojtos.

Thanks for your interesting post: It's a great ship and with some investments there are good possibilities to do some improvements. With the two CAT engines its also very reliable and seagoing. I like the layout with the tender & crane. The tender is in good position for beeing in a marina and the crane can be used for many tasks. I would prefer to replace the tender with a WILLIAMS 325.

... I really have to do some more thinking, what we really want: Fancy AZ55 and the like with speed, planning hull and big diesel consumption - or "trawler style" for good comfort, space and living on bord life.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Thanks for all your valueable input, to close this discussion I have made my personal "short list" to look and screen the EU (and also UK) market. Based on my budget for a 20 year old boat, my family and guests and sailing around the Mediterranian / Italy

You can vote for your preference:
Poll for Good Used Motor-Yacht for First Start around the Mediteranian
Poll / Voting for used 50ft Yacht

 

[red124]

Thanks for your interesting post: It's a great ship and with some investments there are good possibilities to do some improvements. With the two CAT engines its also very reliable and seagoing. I like the layout with the tender & crane. The tender is in good position for beeing in a marina and the crane can be used for many tasks. I would prefer to replace the tender with a WILLIAMS 325.

... I really have to do some more thinking, what we really want: Fancy AZ55 and the like with speed, planning hull and big diesel consumption - or "trawler style" for good comfort, space and living on bord life.

I seam to remember that these may have some wood structure and this can be a pain....