Good Boatsmanship versus Sailsmanship

Re: A lesson never forgotten

Yeah but that was in the bad old days when you could'nt be sure if the Napoleonic War was on or off at the time. Plus there was the wreckers to worry about with lichts tied tae donkeys tails and the oil lamps often blew out .. oh aye quines were loons in yon far flung days. Thank goodness for engines,GPS and Tony Blair!

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Perfection?

Surely one of the keenest pleasures of life on the water is the fact that you never stop learning. I've had the privilege of sailing with some superb professional seamen whose skills I hugely admire and would love to emulate. But I don't think any of them would claim that they have reached perfection.

The more you think, reflect, observe, ponder, imagine, experiment, practice, reflect again.....the more you learn. The people that learn the most are the people who know there is always more to learn.

"All experience is an arch,
Wherethrough gleams the untravell'd world
Whose margin fades forever and forever as I move"

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Re: A lesson never forgotten

The little darlings weren't sea sick I bet the fresh air was helping them cough up the soot from their day jobs.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
Awa\' wi\' ye!

Ye're nocht but an ill-mou'd scurryvaig and ye'll get a richt skelpin' frae me if ye willnae haud yer wheesht!

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Think I know where you're coming from.
I had just motored onto a pontoon in a well known West Scotland harbour which was hosting a big regatta when the next boat in started tacking through moored vessels barely missing raft-end boats in the process.
The harbour was very tight... each tack was taking only five or six minutes max. By the time he was two thirds in there was a good audience, but the admiration at the helm's skills turned to scorn when he put the donk on the go the final few feet onto a raft.
There was clearly no need to sail in apart from pure showmanship.


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Everyone who can sail can tack. And it's still pretty simple to be in open water and be told "pretend you're in a narrow river, tack every 30 seconds" but this doesn't teach all that much. The real skill lies in judging how much room your boat needs through each tack, and exactly when you should put the helm over to clear that moored boat. It's very difficult to judge the space you used through the tack with no close visual references.
Cos when you need your sailing skills to get you out of a tough spot, you often really need them.

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"Boatmanship"..."Sailmanship"....I would prefer to call it "SEAMANSHIP". This covers all aspects but mainly what method of propulsion to use at any given moment that will enable you to continue your passage in the safest and most expedicious possible causing the least hasstle to both yourself, your crew and all those other mariners around you. Hence to tack up a narrow channel causing all other vessels to take avoiding action is maybe not the best thing to do if you have power available....also procceding down that channel at 35kts causing mayhem in your wake neither.

Enjoy your boating bu please respect the rest of us!!

Paul.

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Ah, but there's nothing like the actual need to do something to concentrate the mind. I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to sail onto the mooring with the engine running and missed, but on the three occasions when the engine was non functional, we picked it up first time. This isn't to say its wrong to practice, its just it's not the same as the real thing.
As they say, that the best experience is learned by making mistakes and the way to prevent mistakes is to get some experience. At least I think it's that way round?

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I used to belong to the cruiser fleet of a predominantly dinghy club, where, for reasons best known to the committee, the use of engines in the moorings was banned. I was a lot better at sailing in close quarters then than I am now.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
Re: Perfection?

I couldn't agree more. Life is a continual learning process. I hope to be a student to the end of my days.

Glad you like Mr T.
I think what he actually wrote was,

All experience is an arch wherethro'
Gleams that untravelled world, whose margin fades
For ever and ever when I move.

Call me a pedant, but it just reads better that way!

But back to sailing and your original post..........

How many channels must a man sail down
Before you call him a man?
(with apologies to Bob Dylan)

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by CaptainCava on 01/10/2004 10:22 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Having come back to sailing after 20 years land bound, I am very aware that my boatmanship is not all it could be. I try and go out at quiet times and practice, heaving to and MoB etc, usually with embarrassing results! But I keep at it and hope to regain some of the skills I am sure I used to have.
I reassure myself by remebering that there is always something new to learn about boats and the sea, I just have a few more lessons to learn than some.
But the most important thing is be safe and be courteous to other users of the sea, even the stinkies and PWCs.

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I could suggest that those who display the best seamanship/boatsmanship might feel it a failing on their own part or an annoyance with themselves if they find that they are forced by an engine failure or whathaveyou to sail into somewhere they perhaps would be safer or better not doing so.

Obviously, it depends on boat size - a little light 20 footer is likely to be a doddle to sail most places, into a tight marina for example, but entirely different for a 20 tonne boat. In fact I would be extremely wary of ever sailing our 12 tonne (laden) 40 odd footer into a marina berth down a alleyway whatever the circumstances - it takes a powerful long distance to stop and a strong man cannot hold it (no sails) against a 15 knot breeze.

Have to say I admire the general tenor of the views. Thanks.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
The art is ...

To know when and where to do something without causing others ditress or to take action outside of norm.

The old adage of ..... you can do what you like - but don't invade another is applicable.

I don't agree with some of the antics seen in UK waters .... I posted not so long ago about an idiot who was hard sheeted and tacking out of Chichester amongs the saturday crowds ... crazy ....
I can sail in / out of marina in Estonia - but its quiet and normally only a handful of boats around .... all doing it and sensible .... but OH UK entrances ..... its like a Formula 1 first corner after start .......

I believe sensible caution when appropriate ... trouble is everyone has differeing views on what is sensible etc.


<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
 
There's no shame in getting a bit of unseen flotsam round the prop. Could happen to anyone. How you deal with it is what constitues the seamanship element.
I would agree with you about not wanting to take a 40 odd footer into a tight marina berth, a long straight pontoon is another matter though. On the occasions where I've suffered engine failure in one way or another I've tended to head for a berth just outside the marina, a waiting pontoon or a buoy, and call a harbour launch to actually get the boat back to its finger berth.

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Another one

Was on an old cutter owned by a man of truly vast experience; we were bound south from the far North and were short of provisions. Planned to make the Faeroes for a pit stop. Foggy. Faeroes cancelled; stood on for Lerwick, actually made Stornoway due to strong SE/ly. No harm done.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?
 
Pedantry?

I won't be the one to call you a pedant. Mr. T was a craftsman and what he wrote does, indeed, sound better. Language is a precious thing. The wealth of the English language is its constant development, evolution and change - but when that leads to clumsiness, ugliness, or worst of all, a loss of flexibility, nuance and precision, then I'm right in there pedanting alongside you.

As far as Mr. D is concerned, no bells ring on that particular quote. I can't really be bothered to be endlessly opining on and judging other people's boats, sailing, seamanship etc. I'm with Ian Wright on that one. Live and let live.

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Re: Another one

Apart from the "truly vast experience" bit sounds a little like me.

Head out of Wellington and wifey asks "Where are we stopping". Me - "Dunno, depends how far we get. If we don't get far, maybe we will stop there, if we get further then maybe we will stop here, and if we get all the way, then, well we will be there".

Real Ships Cat just goes into meditation mode and dreams of astral travel 'til we arrive.

John

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
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