Golden globe - one opinion

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Interesting to read that wizer and more experienced people than me think the whole adventure was fundamentally flawed.
 
I'm not so sure, everyone who survives a storm believes it was due to their superior tactics, I tend to think that Peter Hayward (All Seasons Yachtsman) was right when he wrote "Despite sensible design and all the techniques open to the seaman, a yacht, up to about 40' length, will have to rely too much on luck if voyaging in our roughest ocean regions." No one likes to admit they were lucky and got away with it.
 
It’s a quiet Sunday morning so I clicked on the link and read the article in full. I know very little about the 2018 GGR, I’ve superficially read a few of the posts on here from time to time but have poor recollection of much detail.

My first thoughts as I read the rant (his words) was that it was an advertisement for the Jordan drogue.

I hope I’m wrong and that he genuinely is trying to make a contribution to southern ocean sailing safety. He does come across as extremely biased towards Jordan drogues. Perhaps they really are the panacea he suggests?
 
PeterV said:
I'm not so sure, everyone who survives a storm believes it was due to their superior tactics, I tend to think that Peter Hayward (All Seasons Yachtsman) .....will have to rely too much on luck if voyaging in our roughest ocean regions........
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Or good weather info and passage planning.... however the approaches to the Capes themselves relies heavily on luck in one's timing......
 
PeterV said:
I'm not so sure, everyone who survives a storm believes it was due to their superior tactics, I tend to think that Peter Hayward (All Seasons Yachtsman) was right when he wrote "Despite sensible design and all the techniques open to the seaman, a yacht, up to about 40' length, will have to rely too much on luck if voyaging in our roughest ocean regions." No one likes to admit they were lucky and got away with it.
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I rather agree with Lin and Larry Pardey: "In a storm at sea, luck is highly biased towards the sailor who has a plan".

davidjackson said:
My first thoughts as I read the rant (his words) was that it was an advertisement for the Jordan drogue.

I hope I’m wrong and that he genuinely is trying to make a contribution to southern ocean sailing safety. He does come across as extremely biased towards Jordan drogues. Perhaps they really are the panacea he suggests?
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I too am a great fan of the series drogue, though the one I used was only part complete according to Jordan's design. Although you can buy them, most people make them - something to do on those long watches. Of course, it is only of use on ocean passages, and then when you are intending - or obliged - to travel downwind.
 
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If the link, provided by GHA, was a serious attempt at reducing risk then there is surely a moral demand that the information be fully provided free of charge.

Yes - Morgan's Cloud is a business - but surely if you feel passionate about reducing risk and saving lives then ...?

Don't base your sales pitch on engendering fear which might, or might not, be assuaged by a subscription.

If we take part of the message to a logical conclusion then we should cancel the Fastnet, Sydney/Hobart, Volvo, RJK's Clipper Races, etc etc and maybe ban sailing at night or solo

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
If the link, provided by GHA, was a serious attempt at reducing risk then there is surely a moral demand that the information be fully provided free of charge.

Yes - Morgan's Cloud is a business - but surely if you feel passionate about reducing risk and saving lives then ...?

Don't base your sales pitch on engendering fear which might, or might not, be assuaged by a subscription.

If we take part of the message to a logical conclusion then we should cancel the Fastnet, Sydney/Hobart, Volvo, RJK's Clipper Races, etc etc and maybe ban sailing at night or solo

Jonathan
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It is £10, no idea how much that is in Aus$, per year for a wealth of information; I thought the Scots had a reputation for not spending cash.
 
Sandy said:
It is £10, no idea how much that is in Aus$, per year for a wealth of information; I thought the Scots had a reputation for not spending cash.
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If the information is valued at stg10 (aboutA$20) - then why not give it out for free - it apparently is about life and death.


I am a Scot

Jonathan

And it is worth noting - Scots are not mean, they are simply careful - and do not expect a lot for a little.
 
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Guessing this post won't go down well here, but I think the Golden Globe is giving all sailors a bad name, racing and cruising alike.

The entire premise of the Golden Globe Race seems flawed; racing is very different to cruising and in their day these boats would have been sailed by the very best. Time and the best sailors have moved on to other vessels, and together with their managing organisations cooperate with rescue organisations the world over. It's a delicate balance and the subject of much pre-race negotiation.

The Golden Globe is consequently a relic in terms of boats, but not in terms of the sailors, which like it or not are a different breed today. Moreover, the race has failed to keep up with contemporary safety thinking the world over, which is very different from back in the day. On this edition, people have almost died on multiple occasions, with disaster only headed off by expensive, daring and sometime plain dangerous rescues conducted in some of the most far flung inhospitable places in the world and mostly at the expense of the rescuers.

I would personally support the relevant global regulatory authorities taking a hard line with the Globe's organisers to prevent a repetition of this mayhem, under the threat of explicit legal redress if they fail to heed this advice.

And finally, Morgan Cloud's notion that a Jordan series drogue is the magic bullet here is opportunistic, delusional and pathetic in equal measure.

Sorry!
 
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dom said:
And finally, Morgan Cloud's notion that a Jordan series drogue is the magic bullet here is opportunistic, delusional and pathetic in equal measure.

Sorry!
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From reports from boats out there in survival conditions the JSD does seem to get the best press. Lots of the very few people that actually do go where survival conditions are likely won't go without one...

Did morgans could ever say magic bullet? Or just the best available.
 
GHA said:
From reports from boats out there in survival conditions the JSD does seem to get the best press. Lots of the very few people that actually do go where survival conditions are likely won't go without one...

Did morgans could ever say magic bullet? Or just the best available.
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Don't disagree that the Jordan Series drogue is a great bit of kit, I own one and would always keep it on board when offshore. That said, every storm is different in terms of the wave patterns it produces and storms are also dynamic in the sense that wind and wave patterns change as it passes. I think most offshore racers would agree with that.

One has to some times suck it and see what works best: is the boat an old pinched-stern vessel, or able to surf nicely?, is the speed running away?, is it too dangerous to go on the bow to attach a para?, what is the forecast?, what is downwind?, are race pressures in my mind?, etc., etc.

I must admit to only skimming the Morgan's Cloud argument, but none of this seems to be addressed, with a constant referral back to the series drogue as the overarching solution.
 
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dom said:
. I think most offshore racers would agree with that.
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How many have actually been in real survival conditions, I can't think of any I know or chated with at happy hour. Plenty in a very nasty blow but not full on survival.

I must admit to only skimming the Morgan's Cloud argument, but none of this seems to be addressed, with a constant referral back to the series drogue as the overarching solution.
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Which does seem to also be the opinion of a high proportion of the few sailors who have actually spent time high latitudes in real survival conditions.
 
GHA said:
How many have actually been in real survival conditions, I can't think of any I know or chated with at happy hour. Plenty in a very nasty blow but not full on survival.
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Guess I'd agree there too, for example I know quite a lot of the Volvo mob and they'd never want to stop! On the other hand, quick boats open options and a spot of 'depression surfing' - if optimised - can turn even the Southern Ocean into a controlled cold blast. If however the routing goes tits, then one certainly has to de-power and slow, but even then the combination of skill and equipment mostly obviates the need of true survival mode.

None of this is of course possible with Globe type boats and it's now up to the organisors to convince the relevant jurisdictional authorities as to how the race can be made safe.

Fail to do this and I suspect severe pressure will be brought to bear before the next event, if run. The collateral knock-on effects are simply too high.
 
dom said:
......

Fail to do this and I suspect severe pressure will be brought to bear before the next event, if run. The collateral knock-on effects are simply too high.
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I thought a lot of the GGR micro rules were a bit daft. Fortunately there will always be the Jester style "ten bob bet" events to fall back upon, the right spirit and minimum of rules.

http://longueroute2018.com
 
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