Glueing veneers to bulkhead question.

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Jcorstorphine

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I am considering glueing new veneers to the bulkheads in the wheelhouse of my LM 28.
From an earlier post it has been suggest to fit thin plywood but I am keen to stay with the existing sapele mahogany, hence the veneer route.
My question is has anybody done this and if so what glue was used. There seems to be a choice of the following.
Contact adhesive.
PVA
Time Bond
Peel and stick (limited width)
Iron on (lilited width)
Plain veneer with separate iron on adhesive

I am a bit wary of high solvent glues as I damaged my liver many years ago with Thixofix toluene based glue while fixing carpet to the hull in a small aft cabin..
 
Jcorstorphine said:
I am considering glueing new veneers to the bulkheads in the wheelhouse of my LM 28.
. . .

I am a bit wary of high solvent glues as I damaged my liver many years ago with Thixofix toluene based glue while fixing carpet to the hull in a small aft cabin..
Click to expand...

I was worried about solvent glues when laminating a new top in the galley - for me it was fumes = explosion.

So I bought this water-based adhesive. Very easy to use with a long open time but an instant, strong bond (so be careful!).

https://www.selfadhesive.co.uk/3m-scotch-weld-contact-adhesive-30-1l.html

I applied it using 2" disposable brushes and used a roller to squeegee it down.


Very pleased with the result.
 
Iron on double sided adhesive is fairly easy to use and works well. always use moderate heat and a roller to consolidate. Too much heat and the veneer will split. Far easier is to use veneer with a backing that you can get 2-3mm thick which is easy to lay with contact adhesive.
 
The thought of applying a sheet of veneer to a vertical surface perhaps 6' by 3' fills me with horror, it is difficult enough veneering small drawer and cabinet fronts on a workbench when they are flat.
 
Jcorstorphine said:
I am a bit wary of high solvent glues as I damaged my liver many years ago with Thixofix toluene based glue while fixing carpet to the hull in a small aft cabin..
Click to expand...

what were your symptoms. i used contact adhesive to put new carpet on my lift keel box and in the cabins. got a big wiff of the glue in the forward cabin as my mask fell off and i was sweating buckets. been getting occasional headaches since. Iv used it in the past for the engine bay insulation too but was ok then. i used evo-stik impact adhesive
 
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I did a table using contact adhesive following advice in PBO. It looked fine until I varnished it, when many bubbles formed due to softening of the adhesive. I then did a bulkhead using the same method but more adhesive. Results were not a lot better. The self-adhesive iron on stuff seems far easier and likely to remain in place.
 
tillergirl said:
I used epoxy. It's still there 20 years later (veneer not ply).
Click to expand...

+1

Yacht builders, A&R Way repaired a number fo my bulkheads with veneer and used epoxy. I could not say what type or how it was prepared and applied. When I was considering doing it myself, I asked on here and epoxy was rejected and contact adhesive recommend. At the time I did not think that contact adhesive was suitable over the long term, but that was just a gut feel, nothing specific.

The link below is from a person applying veneer who talks about some glue types and why he used Epoxy, West System, the relevant text is 3rd paragraph from the bottom to the end of the article: -

https://finefurnituremaker.com/published-woodworking-articles/veneers-veneering-part-2/
 
Fr J Hackett said:
The thought of applying a sheet of veneer to a vertical surface perhaps 6' by 3' fills me with horror, it is difficult enough veneering small drawer and cabinet fronts on a workbench when they are flat.
Click to expand...

+1.
I'm no expert at woodwork, but veneer is difficult stuff IME.
I would question the value of re-veneering a bulkhead.
 
I to have used Epoxy with good results. I use the quick set, but maybe wouldnt for large areas. The quick set has the advantage you can adjust the veneer as it goes tacky, work out any creases following which it then sets very quickly. Being non water based, it causes no expansion in the veneer.
 
UK-WOOZY said:
what were your symptoms. i used contact adhesive to put new carpet on my lift keel box and in the cabins. got a big wiff of the glue in the forward cabin as my mask fell off and i was sweating buckets. been getting occasional headaches since. Iv used it in the past for the engine bay insulation too but was ok then. i used evo-stik impact adhesive
Click to expand...

You asked about my symptons after being exposed to Thixofix for a period of about an hour without using a mask.
Pains in my back and right side of my stomach
Skin started itching all over my body
Skin turned yellow
Eyes turned yellow
Lost two stone over a month
Could not eat any fatty food
Potassium level in my blood very low
In hospital for a month
Off work for three months
Could not drink wine for about three years

There were times when I thought I would not make it.
 
wow thats scary. i definitley have had my fair share of adhesive exposure, used it for lots on my current and previous boat but not those symptoms, just headached for a few days after. there was also a moment i breathed in a lot of the fumes from self combusting resin as it was setting, had too much in a container that i mixed and i was inside the pokey stern cabin with it smoking and flaming
 
Fr J Hackett said:
The thought of applying a sheet of veneer to a vertical surface perhaps 6' by 3' fills me with horror, it is difficult enough veneering small drawer and cabinet fronts on a workbench when they are flat.
Click to expand...

Veneer pins, veneer pins! The pleasure of epoxy is to allow one to adjust the veneer rather than a contact adhesive.
 
Jcorstorphine said:
I am considering glueing new veneers to the bulkheads in the wheelhouse of my LM 28.
From an earlier post it has been suggest to fit thin plywood but I am keen to stay with the existing sapele mahogany, hence the veneer route.
My question is has anybody done this and if so what glue was used. There seems to be a choice of the following.
Contact adhesive.
PVA
Time Bond
Peel and stick (limited width)
Iron on (lilited width)
Plain veneer with separate iron on adhesive

I am a bit wary of high solvent glues as I damaged my liver many years ago with Thixofix toluene based glue while fixing carpet to the hull in a small aft cabin..
Click to expand...

I’ve done my boat with veneer from robbins. Lots of it. I’ve lost count but about 10 8x4 sheets.

I used evo stik and the first bits were done 6 years ago and it is still all good. Not much help to you as it is high solvent but I did get it to work so I thought I’d share the experience.

I used a wallpaper seam roller to get the bubbles out. Any I missed which showed when varnished were fixed with a blade down the grain and some super glue. Invisible.

Edges were done with iron on veneer.

However I could remove almost everything. I placed the wood on the oversized veneer and trimmed it once dry.

Getting a pre trimmed sheet into place and positioning it exactly is very very difficult and expect to waste some - you get one chance.

It is a lot of work. I ran out of steam and paid Wayne (check out the plant pot thread on the mobo forum) to spend a week finishing it for me.

I used oak. If you have curves the grain has to be aligned with the curve or it won’t bend smoothly. Teak may be different I don’t know. You need to plan carefully how you use the veneer to minimise waste. And don’t get cross when you waste some.

The end result is spot on though. No one would know it’s been veneered post build.
 
I re-did a teak veneered cockpit table with filled West epoxy. It was easy to do, but started delaminating after 2 years again. A rather wet location. I’m going to do it again. This time it will have a waterproof cover. It would have been fine if I had kept it dry.
 
lw395 said:
+1.
I'm no expert at woodwork, but veneer is difficult stuff IME.
I would question the value of re-veneering a bulkhead.
Click to expand...

Well I shall shortly be doing just that because the bulkhead in question previously had white vinyl headlining glued to it covering up a multitude of sins and I want the refurbished forward cabin to match the rest of the boat

I'll be using quarter cut Sapele veneer on a 1mm backing sheet supplied by Robbins, I really wouldn't fancy trying to veneer a vertical surface with plain unbacked veneer

The jury is out on the glue. I've got a large tin of suitable contact adhesive but I'm debating going the West epoxy route instead
 
Bru said:
Well I shall shortly be doing just that because the bulkhead in question previously had white vinyl headlining glued to it covering up a multitude of sins and I want the refurbished forward cabin to match the rest of the boat

I'll be using quarter cut Sapele veneer on a 1mm backing sheet supplied by Robbins, I really wouldn't fancy trying to veneer a vertical surface with plain unbacked veneer

The jury is out on the glue. I've got a large tin of suitable contact adhesive but I'm debating going the West epoxy route instead
Click to expand...

It was conventional wood veneer I was thinking of which is all I have used.
 
Bru said:
. . .

The jury is out on the glue. I've got a large tin of suitable contact adhesive but I'm debating going the West epoxy route instead
Click to expand...

Tillergirl recommended using epoxy and veneer pins.

My recommendation of the 3M water based stuff was for Formica type lamination (which I realise now wasn't the subject of the OP).

I'm really interested in TG's method - perhaps Roger would be kind enough to expand on his technique.

When I've used epoxy to do a horizontal worktop the problem has always been ensuring that the (Formica type) laminate stays flat - so lots of weights and clamps had to be utilised.

How do you ensure a ripple free lamination on a vertical bulkhead using wood veneer, epoxy and veneer pins? Genuinely interested.
 
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