Gludy - the Raggie

[Hurricane]

On a positave note though.

I've been sailing cats for about 25 years and there's nothing like it.
If you get the rig right and on some cats you go quite a lot faster than the wind.

Can be very exhilerating.

Good luck

 

[Magnum]

[ QUOTE ]
On a positave note though.

I've been sailing cats for about 25 years and there's nothing like it.
If you get the rig right and on some cats you go quite a lot faster than the wind.

Can be very exhilerating.

Good luck

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and you get to wave your fists at any mobo that dares to be under way within 1/4 mile of you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Gludy]

Magnum
Do I have your promise now that you will not bring that monster of yours within half a mile of me???

Do not forget unless you see the inverted cone I will be the stand on vessel and that does not mean you have to stand on me!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Magnum]

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[photodog]

Cats do sink if holed..... Scillypete will attest to that.... he was on passage last year to the Caribean, lost his rig, the mast punched a hole in one of the hulls...

 

[Gludy]

Modern designed cats conforming to the modern regs do not sink.

What make/model/year was the cat?

 

[Hurricane]

[ QUOTE ]

Modern designed cats conforming to the modern regs do not sink.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didnt they say that about the Titanic
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Whitelighter]

Paul,

Have you considered this:

Spirited 480

Looks the bees knees and can be built by any yard you nominate - i.e. one that is closer to your base and in which you could then excercise 100% control so that you get the boat built the way you want it 100%

Or you could buy a factory built boat. Either way, they look prettty good.

 

[jimg]

"Modern designed cats conforming to the modern regs do not sink."

How can you say that! Anything can sink and you also state "Cruising cats are designed not to sink - the structure is lighter than water" - ridiculous.
I am really interested in your decision to go this route and it sounds quite promising, but you do spoil your arguments with extreme comments.

 

[Gludy]

They are not extreme comments - have you bothered to check out the facts on this matter?

Cats are built in such a manner that even if filled with water they do not sink - when capsized they float upside down.It is one of the main foundations of modern cat design.

 

[Gludy]

"Didnt they say that about the Titanic"

Yes they did and had the Titanic been made out of the same materials as a modern cat it would still be floating. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

Here is something for the sceptics to read:--

SAFETY

Monohull owners have for years argued that multihulls are not nearly as safe. We heartily disagree. One of the primary laws of physics is that “Everything in nature seeks its most stable position.” The most stable position for a catamaran is indeed upside down on the top of the ocean. But the most stable position for a monohull is at the bottom of the ocean. A well built and properly designed catamaran is very hard to sink – you must either be run over by a tanker or suffer a massive fire. Multihulls gained a bad reputation in the 60’s and 70’s because most of them were home built, not beamy enough, and poorly designed. But modern Multihulls are very hard to capsize. It really takes a monumental act of bone-headedness to capsize a modern cruising Multihull in winds under 70 knots. If you are so bold as to cruise around far offshore in hurricane zones, well, yes, you are taking a serious risk. Fact is, monohulls sink about as often as catamarans capsize, which explains why Lloyd’s insurance policies on cruising cats are nearly the same for cats and monohulls of similar value. (Note: racing mutihulls capsize quite often because they are little more than Hobie Cats on steroids, driven to the edge at all times by thrill seeking racers.) In short, monohull owners are rescued from life rafts. Multihull people are rescued from capsizes. Where would you rather be? Sitting in a small life raft in a storm or sitting securely inside your much larger and more stable upside down multihull? To catamaran owners, the answer to this is a no brainer. A faster boat is also a safer boat, as the faster boat is exposed to fewer storms. A catamaran that can regularly pull 220 mile days on a passage from Panama to Hawaii will be exposed to far less storm risk than the monohull that has a hard time regularly pulling 175 mile days. With good weather routing information a Multihull can avoid most serious weather and, at worst, place itself on the most favorable position to avoid the brunt of a storm. We also believe that catamarans are superior to monohulls in terms of redundancy. Cruising catamarans generally carry two diesel engines and a diesel generator. An engine failure on a monohull is the end of motoring. Not so on a catamaran. And a catamaran has two hulls, not one. A hull fracture on a monohull is a far more serious and dangerous thing that it is on a Multihull.

 

[Malcb]

[ QUOTE ]




Many mono hulls sink because they fill with water and then have a greater denisty that water. MANY LOSE THEIR KEELS -THEN SINK.

And monohulls (sailing) can be built with substantial inherent buoyancy; they may become waterlogged but won't sink."

NO TRUE - A sailing mono hull needs the weight and leverage to counter act the forces on the sail. They cannot be built light because they have a huge heavy keel to counteract the sail forces and so as a whole are heavy boats and they do sink.


[/ QUOTE ]

Gludy, I think you should check your facts. Etaps have been sailed when full of water without inverting, and if I remember, Bullimore survived in an inverted boat that had lost it's keel for several days. If a mono loses its keel, then it will invert and usually stay there because of the air trapped inside, and because it loses it's potential for righting itself.

AND shouldn't this post be on the 'Sailing' forum and NOT the MoBo one /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Searush]

Hi Gludy, I think people take your statements as a bit of a challenge. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Below are a couple of points that the manufacturers' blurbs will ignore. Plus a couple of good books to read anyay!

Waves can have a major impact on the stability of hull form (read the Smeetons, "once is enough"). The very wide deck of beamy modern cats can also become a liability as they can offer tremendous windage if a hull is lifted at any time - say by short steep waves in a strong wind situation on the edge of a continental shelf. Lightweight construction simply exacerbates this sort of problem, should it occur.

Living in an upturned cat hull is not safe, comfy or pleasant. There will be a lot of water inside the boat, and most of your gear will be out of order, unuseable or simply inaccessible in the capsized position. Read "Capsized" by steven callahan & james nalepka for the 'inside' story!

Finally, use of a sea anchor imposes considerable strains on the anchor warp. These are known to part frequently. Now I would normally expect this to be due to chafe damage, however I was reading an erudite study of the issue recently (sorry I have no reference) that discovered that the problems usually occur where the warp dips in & out of the sea about 10-15 feet in front of the boat! Their conclusion was that the wet warp was significantly weakened by the "wringing out" effect of tautening the wet rope & then dunking it in the sea again, over & over again. Maybe consider 50' of chain at the boat end of the sea anchor warp?

Good luck with whatever you choose. I'm sure that once bitten will make you ultra careful - I hope it proves an unnecessary concern.
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Whitelighter]

Piicies of the Spirit 380.

I reckon the 480 would suit you Paul:

even got twin sticks /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Gludy]

[ QUOTE ]
Gludy, I think you should check your facts. Etaps have been sailed when full of water without inverting, and if I remember, Bullimore survived in an inverted boat that had lost it's keel for several days. If a mono loses its keel, then it will invert and usually stay there because of the air trapped inside, and because it loses it's potential for righting itself.

AND shouldn't this post be on the 'Sailing' forum and NOT the MoBo one

[/ QUOTE ]

If you refer to what I have stated already in this thread you will see that I have stated that with the keel a mono hull is denser than water and when filled with water will sink. I specifically mentioned the keel weighing tons and why the boat would sink.

Naturally without a keel it may or may not float depending on the materials used etc but most who lose their keel do sink.

So my facts are as stated and your examples just make my point.

Why did Bullimore get into trouble? because he lost his keel and inverted - the air inside kept the upside down yacht floating - without the keel it was nearer to the cat and therefore he survived!!!! You make my point for me - a c at does that without losing its keel!!!

I really disagree that a mono hull losing its keel will usually stay there - most do sink having lost their keel and all do sink if filled with water if they still keep their keel.

This thread is on this forum because it about a MoBoer becoming a raggie - when I am a raggie I will move over /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

S earush
I have every book on the subject and every video plus detailed studies and even a number of imported DVd's ...... I can promise that I take is seriously. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif My expenses in info purchases alone exceed £1000 ..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can deploy a parachute wrongly - biut if you fail to deploy one when you need it then bye bye.

Anyone who has experienced heavy seas in these boats and used a parachute will never go to sea without one.

I cannot accept an argument that because some people do not know how to use them they should not be used .... on that basis we would have nothing to use /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

"Living in an upturned cat hull is not safe, comfy or pleasant. "

We agree - it must be hell but it is far better than living in a life raft or floating in a life jacket outside and staying with the boat improves your chances of being found by magnitudes. They even paint the hull bottoms phosperescent to glow in the darkl!!!

 

[jimg]

"I have every book on the subject and every video " There you go again! Surely you mean, you have bought every book and video that you could find?
Do you have the ones that Searush is talking about?

 

[Gludy]

Jmg
The book 'Capsized' I do not have - I have other books by the same author such as Adrift but the whole point is that i know it must be hell living in a capsized boat - what is the point that is being made? Its still the best of the alternatives.

As regards Smeeton's book I have that but have not read it yet.

In their case their ketch somersaulted - its was not using a sea anchor and could have avoided that problem with a sea anchor - so again what is the point being made?

Basically the water in waves simply forms an elliptical path moving forward a nudge each time. When you deploy a sea anchor you hold position and may only cover 0.5 mile in 24 hours. You go up and down but avoid bashing into waves - you sit in the same water and leave a calm slick like a path behind you. It is like parking the boat at sea. The use of these anchors is essential in storms such as they were in.

The sea anchor would have almost certainly prevented the problem they had so please tell me why I should pick this up now and read it?.

I am happy for anyone to dispute this but please make a point 0 not just general vague mentions without any substance.

Try reading Storm Tactics by the Purdeys or the book Drag device Data Base - over 120 documented cases of using parachute anchors including how not to use them.

Basically a sea anchor will capture tens of thousands of pounds of water and it will stop you. You will no longer bash into the seas, you will sit on water going up and down. Your boat will have minimla energy to throw itself against the sea. Its you traveling through the sea that causes the problem and then having the nerve to blame the sea for traveling towards you!!!

Is anyone disputing the facts I am claiming for sea anchors?

 

[Gludy]

Can I make a further point - Capsized is about how men survived 119 days in an upturned Trimaran - is anyone trying to tell me they would have been better off floating in their life jackets?

These points being made just support my points because what I am claiming is factual and true.