Global Warming prog on Channel4

[bedouin]

Re: Missed Point?

[ QUOTE ]
From the facts delivered, historical icecore data, sunspot activity, skating on the Thames, troposphere temperatures (or lack of), CO2(total) = 0.054% of Earths atmosphere, there was, if these facts can be substantiated, a compelling argument that mankind are not to blame.

[/ QUOTE ]
There were no facts presented - it was just a "conspiracy theory" type programme that did not present any credible evidence. There may be a good scientific argument against the consensus view but the programme did not present it

 

[claymore]

Re: Heads in the sand

Tactically that would not be my best move. Dear Heart may be small but she's the kick of a Mullingar Heiffer when rankled

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: Heads in the sand

you've mentioned this beast several times .. there could be more than one of them; wears different hooves, horns etc but probably same species ..

two really good predictions: no need for electricity meter readers (opening of calder hall nuclear power station) and coal will run out in 15 years (prediction made in 1910 based on current consumption and reserves).

 

[alant]

Re: Missed Point?

Quote:
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From the facts delivered, historical icecore data, sunspot activity, skating on the Thames, troposphere temperatures (or lack of), CO2(total) = 0.054% of Earths atmosphere, there was, if these facts can be substantiated, a compelling argument that mankind are not to blame.


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"if these facts can be substantiated"
I said!!
How about trying to debunk them, one by one then!

"There were no facts presented - it was just a "conspiracy theory" type programme that did not present any credible evidence.

How can you possibly say that?
You may not agree with the facts, or the manner in which they were presented, but please don't pretend they didn't present any!
(historical icecore data, sunspot activity, skating on the Thames, troposphere temperatures (or lack of), CO2(total) = 0.054% of Earths atmosphere, etc).

Were those guys simply lying?
They seemed to be publicly making statements which could very easily be disproved, even by laymen, if untrue.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Missed Point?

As with all conspiracy theories it is not the facts but the crazy interpretation they put on them.

Why should frost fairs on the Thames disprove Global Warming?

CO2 levels are 50% higher than they have been at any time in the last 500000 years - and that rise has happened in only 200 years.

One of the scientists who was quoted as supporting the programme has published a scathing condemnation of the programme and its misquoting him.

There was not a single argument in the programme that stands any form of scrutiny

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Missed Point?

Every one talks as if frost fairs on the Thames were commonplace. The opposite is true - they were freak events caused by freak weather. In fact, given the life span of those days, it was possible to be a cock-en-eye and never see one. And the end of frost fairs came not such much because of climatic conditions but because the Thames was cribbed and confined, increasing the flow and making it harder for ice to form without being swept away.

 

[alant]

Re: Missed Point? Yes, perhaps, but who is missing it??

"As with all conspiracy theories it is not the facts but the crazy interpretation they put on them."

Ah! But which theory is the conspiracy & which the crazy interpretation??


"Why should frost fairs on the Thames disprove Global Warming?"

The argument surely, is not 'is there global warming', but what is causing it!


"CO2 levels are 50% higher than they have been at any time in the last 500000 years - and that rise has happened in only 200 years."

That statement is very similar to those given in the programme you are rubbishing, but they all seemed to be emminent scientists - Proof please!

Most people recognise the vast increase in industrialisation which has taken place in the last 60yrs, including the input from aircraft & cars etc. Why then, if true, did CO2 increase prior to that period? Where did it come from? How much is derived from human activity & how much from other sources? If there is global warming, the locked up CO2 in the oceans then released, will soon outstrip any reduction we might achieve by changing a few light bulbs. At the same time, introducing DAB radios, with their 20X increase in power demand over analogue radio. Bit like rearranging the deckchairs don't you think?

"And the end of frost fairs came not such much because of climatic conditions but because the Thames was cribbed and confined, increasing the flow and making it harder for ice to form without being swept away"

So, why was this period called "The Little IceAge"?
A reduction in flow down the Thames would hardly cause this effect across the whole of the UK & Europe!

Surely, its better to have an open mind regarding Global Warming causation, rather than what appears to be 'The Emporer's New Clothes' syndrome.

I personally, do not want to become a disciple of 'experts' like like Al Gore, Arnold Schwartzanneger & T.Blair!

 

[bedouin]

Re: Missed Point? Yes, perhaps, but who is missing it??

[ QUOTE ]
That statement is very similar to those given in the programme you are rubbishing, but they all seemed to be emminent scientists - Proof please!


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If you bother to use google you will find plenty of information from a sufficient range of reputable resources.

One of those emminent scientists written a sweeping criticism of the programme and says that it is making him out to be saying the total opposite of what he actually says.

If the contributors themselves disown the programme how on earth can you put any faith in it?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Missed Point? Yes, perhaps, but who is missing it??

>Why then, if true, did CO2 increase prior to that period? <

Coal. For factories, transport (shipping and railways), and home heating.

Monet, Waterloo Bridge, 1903

London through the haze, 1910

"A Frost Fair on the Thames at Temple Stairs by Abraham Hondius, 1684. The Thames has been known to freeze over on several occasions, but the great freeze of 1683-4 was the longest in London's history. "

1684 was pre fossil-fuelled industrialisation. The last recorded frost fair was 1813-1814. The old London Bridge, which had so many arches it acted as a partial dam was replaced in 1831, speeding up river flows. The construction of the London sewage system by Joseph Bazalgette involved narrowing and embanking the Thames through central London, again speeding up river flows. This work took place in the 1860s and 1870s.

Without these sorts of works affecting the nature of the Thames, There's a good chance we'd have had a few more frost fairs since 1814, almost certainly in the winter of 1962, when many lakes and slower-flowing streams froze hard for weeks.

"The winter of 1962/63 was tobogganing heaven for the nation's children but the cold and snow would offer a challenge of a different kind for just about everyone else. Glasgow had its first white Christmas since 1938 when rain turned to snow as it moved south, and a belt of snow became almost stationary over southern England on Boxing Day. The following day five centimetres of snow lay in the Channel Islands, with 30 cm covering much of southern England. The initial effect of this snowfall was to bring transport to a standstill, delay schools opening and force the cancellation of sporting events - but more snow was on the way.
On 29 and 30 December a blizzard across south-west England and Wales left drifts six metres deep which blocked roads and rail routes, left villages cut off and brought down power lines.Thanks to further falls and almost continual near-freezing temperatures, snow was still deep on the ground across much of the country three months later.

In the intervals when snow was not falling, the country simply appeared to freeze solid - January daytime temperatures barely crept above freezing, and night frosts produced a temperature of -16 °C in places as far apart as Gatwick and Eskdalemuir. Freezing fog was a frequent hazard - but the spectacular rime deposits that built up over successive days were a photographer's dream.

January was the month when even the sea froze (out to half a mile from the shore at Herne Bay), the Thames froze right across in places, and ice floes appeared on the river at Tower Bridge. Everywhere birds literally dropped off their perches - killed by the cold and lack of natural food.

February was marked by more snow arriving on south-easterly winds during the first week, with a 36-hour blizzard hitting western parts of the country. Drifts 20 feet deep formed in gale-force winds (gusts in excess of 70 knots were common, and a gust of 103 knots was recorded on the Isle of Man). Many rural communities found themselves cut off for the tenth time since Christmas. Throughout the winter thousands of sheep, cattle and ponies starved because it was impossible to get enough fodder to them.

A slight lull in the wintry proceedings happened around mid-month, but in the third week of February it was the turn of the north-west UK to suffer - in Cumberland the snowfall was reckoned to be the worst in living memory. By the end of the month the weather over the country had reverted to 'normal' - cold but clear and sunny days with severe night frosts and freezing fog.

A gradual thaw then set in - the morning of 6 March 1963 was the first day in the year that the entire country was frost free, and the temperature soared to 17 °C in London. Temperatures recovered, and long icicles playfully speared into snowdrifts by children in January, finally started to shrink. Monster snowmen and snowballs - now adrift and melting in the green 'seas' of gardens and playing fields - were soon all that was left of the winter that was probably the coldest since 1795."