Global warming - a Bollockquilism

[photodog]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

I think that the sceptisicm for GW has been fuelled by this Governments answer to the problem, Taxation. We are the 2nd most expensive place on the planet for petrol, with our price nearly twice the world average, every time we turn around the government is coming up with new green taxes, taxes designed to reduce our behavioural choices, but which in reality increase the gap between the rich and the poor and reduce our ability to invest our income to reduce our consumption..... Its entirely hypocritical. (Witness the govt £300 million cut in funding to the dept in charge of reducing our co2 as reported in the Guardian.)

I believe that we have a real problem, but Taxation aint the answer, Legislation is, and if the US doesnt get on board (Who emit twice per capita that we do, and are responsible for 25% of the world emissions.) Then all this money wasted on taxation will have destroyed our ability by individuals and businesses to actaully invest to improve /reduce their energy use and adapt for the challenges that we will face in a much colder climate...

 

[StephenSails]

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I have not seen that info suppressed, I thought it was well known.

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Never seen it mentioned.

What has happened to the aerosol and fridge gasses that were causing global warming, and the hole in the Ozone?. Also has this sealed? as it has not been mentioned recently since we went onto carbon being the cause.



Brian

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The hole in the Ozone layer and Greenhouses gasses are not quite the same issue, the one thing in common is that mankind is behind it.

 

[Norman_E]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Quote "The brand new report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was approved on Friday by representatives of more than 140 governments meeting in Valencia, Spain. The report says that global warming is "unequivocal" and that humans' actions are heading toward "abrupt or irreversible climate changes and impacts."

There were three reports the size of telephone books from which this thing has been derived. Those reports must have contained a vast amount of stuff, some of it contradictory, but all we seem to hear is one of the most sensational claims, as quoted above. It looks as if the 140 governments have agreed to use one of the oldest population control methods of all, fear. Global warming may be real, it may even be man made, but the objective here is to frighten us into accepting higher taxes and subsidising totally uneconomic methods of power generation, like wind farms. There are of course huge profits to be made from the fear of climate change, even if none of the measures, for which we will pay so dearly, actually work.

 

[whipper_snapper]

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But is it? - I stress that the quantity of CO2 is only a trace element in the atmosphere. I have never seen this mentioned in any global warming case - why do they suppress this info??

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Are you serious? Information on the quantity of CO2 is being suppressed ?!!!! All data I have seen from both sides of this extraordinary argument express CO2 levels in ppm. Are you saying you have only just realised what ppm stands for ?

Without entering into the climate change argument at all, I find it simply incredible that anyone with any grasp of anything can say that a 35% increase is irrelevant because there wasn't much to start with! There is damn all acetylcholine in your brain. Try increasing that by 35%

There are some real unknowns surrounding human effect on climate. This is not one of them.

 

[cnh]

The earth is about 20C warmer than it should be, given its distance from the sun. This was attributed to the 'greenhouse effect'. The sun is much hotter than the earth, and radiates at quite short wavelengths. The earth radiates at comparatively long wavelengths.

These longer wavelengths are absorbed by various gasses in the atmosphere.

Wikipedia does a good summary.

There is obviously natural climate change: 100 000 years ago there were glaciers over Yorkshire.

How much humans contribute to present warming is debatable. There are also a lot of 'scare stories' about global warming which need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I think there is some truth in it, but also a lot of hype. Also a lot of bollocks - eg 'ecoyachts'.

 

[Guest]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Well said mate! Nail smacked neatly on head! Shame that all that tippy tapping landed on search infertile etc etc..............

 

[Tranona]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

The reason why the "contra" views don't get an airing is because the proponents don't have research grants, don't have their articles published in journals, aren't funded by governments etc. Their means of communication are restricted to late night Channel 4 documentaries and half pages in the Telegraph. How can they compete with UN General Secretaries and scientifically unsound propoganda films being distributed to our schools using taxpayers' money.

Just a rerun of the flat earth issue in the middle ages, only that time the oppressors were religous leaders. It only stopped when at the end of 15th century, explorers came back and destroyed the main plank of the flat earth argument - you fell off when you went over the horizon.

Closer to home I am sure many of you remember the Aids scare of the 80's when the orthodox view was that it was "everybody's" disease - I remember the scary leaflets and posters my children brought home from school. It never was, and has history has proved for our society, never would be. This does not mean that it is not a major problem in some sectors of our society and elsewhere, but IMHO the effort expended on trying to scare the rest of us diverted attention away from helping people who had a very real need.

One could go on with examples of unjustified scare stories, which are relatively harmless when they are confined to crank websites, but dangerous when they dominate our media

Glad to see this debate on this forum as sailing (apart from the materials used in modern boat construction and the marinas used to store our boats) is one of the most environmentally friendly discretionary activities available.

 

[Slow_boat]

Okay, so there is a thing called global warming. Okay, it could have been partialy man made. Okay, it's inevitable. Okay, we shouldn't waste or pollute so much.

If we can't stop it, why not learn to live with the effects? It does look to me that sea level rises of a few inches over a century or so isn't to bad as long as it can be predicted. Just build seqa defences a few inches higher for a start.

Temperature rises of a few degrees over the same time isn't unsolveable.

Lets adapt to nature instead of fighting against it.

The trouble is, all the 'evidence' we have is biased. If coming from a government source doubly so.

 

[pmyatt]

I'll believe that global warming is man made when I see Gordon Brown walking to work; until then, KMFA.

 

[HoratioHB]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Now that man made climate change is in the realm of religion ie, most of the belief is based on faith. There never seem to be real scientific based facts which stand up to real scrutiny and whenever a counter argument is offered the zealots react with a contemptous fury, again without being able to offer rational responses. I am really worried that the next step will be 'climate change fundamentalism'. Lets face it most religions end up with a lunatic fringe - and this one seems to have more than most.

One good reason to get away from this country (which we do on Wednesday !!!)

Of course you can always take a counter religious viewpoint

http://www.venganza.org/ which explains the real situation in a far more convincing religious way.
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[Twister_Ken]

 

[HoratioHB]

Yeah and what are these graphs supposed to prove??? They have different axial scales and are completely meaningless unless in support of a rational scinetific argument - whihc appears to be missing!!

 

[whipper_snapper]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

I have to respond to this. This thread started with someone saying that CO2 levels were too low to have an effect. He went on to say that the absolute levels were being "suppressed"! Both points are patently utter nonsense.

Starting from such a depressingly low level, the arguments have descended further. People are now queuing up to say that they 'believe' MMGW is a conspiracy and that they 'believe' there is no evidence for it. And then accusing MMGW of having the status of religious belief!!

To then dismiss the ongoing devastating AIDS pandemic as some kind of scare story is really disgusting. The orthodox view that it was "everybody's" disease was spot on. Look at AIDS levels in Africa, Asia, China. How can you say 'history has proved' that it would never be a threat to your little society. It seems most likely that Northern Europe escaped the pandemic because of those scare stories, combined with better levels of general health. Imagine what would have happened without the rapid response from scientists and medics who identified the virus and its mode of transmission and developed assays.

I find it all very disturbing. There are unknowns in the mechanisms and significance of climate change. There clearly are vested interests attempting to capitalise on it. But this level of willful ignorance is astonishing.

 

[[3889]]

CO2 in the atmosphere causes positive feedback in the carbon cycle.
Warmer atmosphere = warmer ocean = less CO2 dissolved in ocean = more CO2 in atmosphere = warmer ocean etc., etc.

Climate has changed dramatically in the past; also mass extinctions have occurred.
That, however, doesn't mean global warming is a manmade phenomenon, that it is currently caused by CO2 , that it does not produce net benefits and that it may be too late to intervene anyway due to huge amounts of carbon about to be liberated from deep ocean circulation. So many maybes: enjoy things whle you can.

 

[[3889]]

These graphs always start from the mid 70s; before this Global Mean Surface Temp.(GMST) fell for 40 years. How is that explained by the industrial carbon model which began in the 19th Century?

 

[Guest]

Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

You're going???









Oh good, I am sure you'll be missed.................









Not a lot. Tara!

 

[Sgeir]

Your header, "Global warming - a Bollockquilism", more than adequately demonstrates your willingness to engage with, or even consider, another point of view. Fair enough.

 

[photodog]

Can someone explain to me the downside of using less fossil fuels???

You may reject the GW argument, but surely lowering our reliance on fossil fuels is a good thing, no matter?
The yanks seem to take a perverse pride in how wastefull they are..... Theres a comment on another thread today were a fella from Florida is proud of his Lincoln getting less than 24mpg!!!

So, dont believe, do believe, no difference, but if you wanna be competitive in the future, and not have to send thousands of young people to their death in mid east wars, then get with the program and cut down of your use of fossil fuels!

 

[bobgoode]

Try this fact:
The Earth intercepts more energy from the Sun in one hours than the sum of mankinds activities release in on year.

 

[Sixpence]

24mpg /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Lucky git , my RR is lucky to get 20mpg
As others have said , if HMG seriously believe it and want to do something about it they should stop taxation on 'green' fuels . Until they show that they are not just using it as yet another excuse for taxes then there is no way I'm going to believe a word they say . After all , how do you know when a politician is telling porkies ?
The lips are moving