giving a deposit back

I would make sure the notes are not duds! Try paying them into your bank account.

I would be p#ssed off, but would give him all his money back. Why? cos it's good karma dude /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Alternatively say you don't mind waiting for a month, if he does not come up with the cash by then say you will give him the deposit back. Unless he is very fat, has no hair, a Pitbull. And a RIB /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I'm in the go with your gut feeling camp.

If you think he was a decent bloke who really intended to buy the boat, give it back less any expenses--he might be missing that 500 quid if he's too broke to go through with the purchase.
 
A case history
I needed to sell a car quickly as I had another one coming and needed the cash for the deposit. first caller decided to buy after knocking some money off. Gave me £400 deposit. I gave reciept detailing balance was payable within 2 weeks. After 2 weeks he said he only had x amount of money which was £500 less than we agreed. We had a contract which he broke so I kept the money and he didnt get the car. I didnt feel guilty because 1. He tried to rip me off 2. I wasted 2 weeks waiting for him to pay up 3. turned away dozens of potential buyers 4. I had to borrow 10 grand to cover my new car until I sold my old one. I think he got off lightly.

Keep the money mate. It doent matter what you call it deposit or not. If you enter into a contract you are bound by law to complete it. If you enter into a business contract and dont fulfill your part you can bet that company will persue you for recompense. Why should you be any different.
If you keep this guys money he will think twice before he enters into another contract and save someone else a lot of hassle. In fact you are doing this guy a favour!!
 
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My guess is that I give him £400 back allowing for readvertising costs etc.


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Was it to be their first boat? if it was then maybe there is some justification in being gentle with them.

I would go with what you feel is fair irrespective of contract law, you dealt with the people involved.

Keeping £100 feels about right without knowing the circumstances and is IMHO the minimum you should retain.


If you were put out consider keeping more.

E.g.
Not first boat. (Should know better) + £50
Turned away another potential buyer +£50
Did you change your plans to accommodate them? +£50
Did you travel far for them to view? +£50
Were they a pain to deal with? +£50

Show them this newsthread, let them know they may not be let off so lightly if they do it again.

Sorry you have had a bad experience,

David
 
The only honourable solution is to retain the deposit and press for full payment He made a deal he must stick by it.

You could show you did your best to mitigate his costs by passing on the details(with permission so to do) of the other interested party.

If he really withdraws then he is liable for the cost of maintaining the boat until you can recover the situation by selling to another so Keep the £500

Each week send him a bill for
1 Loss of interest
2Cost of insurance
3Costs for re-advertising
4 Proportion of mooring fees
5 the value of all reminder letters and telephone calls made chasing him for payment

All IMHO of course
 
If you've incurred real costs, then take them out of the deposit...otherwise I don't see the moral justification in keeping it. What really annoys me is the 10% deposit that brokers insist upon spilling over into private sales. Even the RYA says there is no justification for it. I take an opposite approach and as a buyer try to ensure I'm not wasting my time and money on a boat that when hauled-out and surveyed has a major fault. I can't reclaim this from the seller can I? Believe me this isn't just a matter of time-wasting buyers, but time- (and money-) wasting sellers also!! It does need sorting out and it would be nice if the RYA could give better advice / guidance to private sales.
 
Don't know how much the boat will sell for - but won't you be pissed off if it sells for £500 less than this guy's offer?

Legally, IF you had a binding deal with him and he wants to pull out, you can either accept his position and claim damages from him (e.g. readvertising, insurance, interest, difference between his price and the price you eventually sell for) or you can insist he completes the deal. Insisting probably isn't worthwhile (you would have to go to court), so claiming damages is probably easier (as you already have £500).

If you want to be a nice guy you can tell him - look, we had a deal. If you want to pull out, fine but I am going to keep the £500 until I sell, and deduct my additional costs. If there is any left over I will give it to you then.

Now you might be able to sell it a bit quicker if you drop the price by £500 and keep his money.
 
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I deal with deposits in my business and was advised that a deposit is normally refundable in law. For that reason I changed from asking for a deposit to asking for a retainer.

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Hear, hear.

I am no expert but one thing I am sure about is that deposits are almost always legally refundable.

I am less sure about this bit - but AIUI you cannot normally enforce a contract in law - you can only sue for damages. So even if you have a binding contract for sale the buyer is only liable for any costs you've incurred between him making the offer and pulling out - given that that was only a day or so in this case there can't be many of those.

Things like "re-advertising" does not come into that category unless you had cancelled the adverts as a direct result of the offer and placing them again would cost you additional money.
 
There is a difference between a deposit and a down payment - as I recall one is refundable and the other isn't but IMO it doesn't matter. As I said above, IF you had a binding deal (I assume you did) then you can claim all the damages you suffer as a result of him pulling out, and not just calculated over a couple of days. These will include things like interest, advertising, mooring, insurance - and all of these can be calculated UNTIL YOU SELL (if he had kept to his part of the bargain, you would not have incurred any of these costs). Plus, as I said earlier, the difference in sale price.

If these are likely to exceed £500 I would be inclined just to tell him you are going to keep the £500. If they are going to be significantly less (although you might not know until you sell) you might want to tell him you will give him the difference AFTER you sell. If they are going to be thousands more than the £500 you might want to keep your options open and tell him he can pull out but you will pursue him for the further costs.

If you decide to keep the money, even temporarily, my advice would be to explain to him why you are keeping it - not just to be spiteful but because the two of you had a deal, you expect people to honour their word and the consequence of him not keeping his word is that it will cost you money - and THAT is why you are keeping the deposit.
 
No - you are allowed to claim damages that result from the breach of contract. All of the things I mentioned above are examples of damages resulting from the breach.
 
I'd be interested if you could cite any examples of where such damages have been awarded in similar cases (in particular where only a day or so has elapsed between deposit and request for refund).
 
I can't cite a case with these specific facts (no longer in the UK and not so easy to do research here) but the general principle has been around for more than 150 years:

"Where two parties have made a contract which one of them has broken, the damages which the other party ought to receive in respect of such breach of contract should be such as may fairly and reasonably be considered either arising naturally, i.e., according to the usual course of things, from such breach of contract itself, or such as may reasonably be supposed to have been in the contemplation of bot parties, at the time they made the contract, as the probable result of the breach of it."

Alderson B. in Hadley v. Baxendale (1854), 9 Exch. 341, 156 E.R. 145.

This case is usually cited in discussion of remoteness of damages (so-called "first limb" and "second limb" losses).

Can you cite any cases in which the kinds of losses that I have mentioned have been rejected as a matter of principle?
 
If he asked for or demanded the deposit back tell him to swing his hook for trying it on. If he has simply said he cannot go through with the purchaese then maybe some £££ can be justified, IMHO. Agree its down to how you found the purchaser as a person - genuine mistake or p!ss taker.
 
Something else that annoys me. Many respondants here are saying "keep the money"...now maybe that's because it's "only" £500. What if this was £5000 (10% deposit on a £50,000 boat). Unless the guy (or girl) was an out-and-out crook, would YOU sleep happy having taken his money??? Are we not a community of fair-minded people that help each other? This issue has nothing to do with what our legal rights might or might not be...it's the MORALITY of it that matters. Similarly on the buyers side...if he's caused you an actual loss, then compensation should be offered, but to just say "keep the lot" irrespective of the circumstances is deplorable IMHO!
 
With all these posts suggesting that the deposit is given back, can anyone tell what the purpose of the deposit is if it is refundable - why take it?

You try putting a deposit down on a holiday and then change your mind and ask for it back.
 
OK let me answer your question a) it shows good intentions rather than time-wasting b) it does provide a means of settling bona-fide costs that a seller incurs if the deal falls through.

However, I don't like deposits at all as who knows if you'll ever get it back even if you have a solid case i.e. poor survey. I mean, what does "subject to survey" actually mean? It's not like you have a pass / fail situation as with an MoT on a car. It's often a matter of opinion. If a buyer is prepared to lay out many hundreds of pounds or more on a haul-out and a survey, then that for me shows serious intent. If the seller insists on a few hundred deposit to cover his out-of-pocket expenses...maybe...but more than that...NO WAY.
 
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If the seller insists on a few hundred deposit to cover his out-of-pocket expenses...maybe...but more than that...NO WAY.

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why are you getting on a high horse. a few hundred quid is all that`s involved here. in this case we don`t know if the seller insisted on a deposit or the prospective purchaser offered same.
the legal reasons why he should retain the deposit for the time being and how he should approach the matter have been spelt out in at least two posts by myself and bbg.
there have been plenty complaints that there is a dearth of free legal advice on these fora. well you are getting some now - lets see whether it is taken or not.
 
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