Getting through the Glitz

[martinwoolwich]

I’m trying to get through all the marketing hype, pretty brochures and slick salespeople and wonder if the revered panel can give some opinions.

Let’s take two boats

1) Sunseeker Manhattan 56
2) Ferretti 57

The specifications for both in terms of number of cabins, interior finish and all the stuff they print in the brochures or say face–to-face seem fine - but I’m trying to get a view on things like, build quality, engineering, sea handling, residual values, support and the overall ownership experience.

On the face of it I really like the Sunseeker (who wouldn’t) - but am I just falling for the glossy interiors and finishes? My perception is that Ferretti have the better reputation for build, design and engineering. Is this true? Based on what?

Going smaller how about a comparison between

1) Fairline Phantom 46 – which my wife loves
2) Ferretti 48 – which I much prefer

Is there a Ford, BMW, Mercedes type comparison? if so why?

We are looking at a new purchase of one of these within the next 24 months so we’re taking our time and trying to get it right. Any views or comments would really be appreciated.

 

[paulineb]

Ferretti every time

I would choose the Ferretti every time. The build quality is far superior. They pay just as much attention to the details/interiors etc that you don't see, as they do to the shiny surfaces you do see.

The ex-power boat driver who we bought our boat from, delivered a Sunseeker from Poole to France, got caught out in heavy seas and parts of the interior of the boat started falling apart. He says it's a great, stylish boat to use in the med, sit in the marina with G&Ts and cruise around the SoF etc in calm, weather but for heavy seas it's a no no. Whereas the Ferretti has style, grace, quality, great handling, looks fab when it's going along at sea. A typical sexy Italian boat. Can I have a ride on it please when you buy one ??

Pxx

 

[tcm]

Excellent question.

I favour Italian boats over UK at the moment, based on engineering "sense" rather than style, experience in the field, hidden options, longer and greater med experience and price.

From the UK point of view, the feeling is that sunseeker is dominant. But in the south of france, ferretti and many others are more populous boats than sunseeker. This is especially true of the larger boats, where sunseeker have only been in the market relatively recently.

Like you it seems, my interest is bomb-solid engineering, not superfluous fluffiness. Sunseeker win hands down on the fluffiness. Ferretti feel much more like a big boat company making a small boat - and it feels the other way around for sunseeker and fairline.

If there is an car analogy, then ferretti (sp?) are mercedes, with longer-lifed models and that engineering. Dunno what sunseeker are - perhaps jag, trading on that british values and lifestyle whatsname. Tho note they have much of the same engines etc.

I feel that sunseeker is first choice for lottery winners, but that secondhand the boats are less attractive, like a used dream. Not at all sure about their design principles with the so-called open boats having hardtops. It almost feels as tho sunseekers are for people who feel they ought to have a boat, but secretlty don't much like boating.

Now of course, these boats all have backing of serious (german-built engines such as MAN or MTU, so we shouldn't get too hung up about it.

What about ferretti then? I looked at these for some time. they are "squarer" than the curving interiors of sunseeker. This means that they have more space and storage - hardly anyone buys a sunseeker-style curving sofa for their house, and of course storage under or around such an arrangement is limited or non-existent. I spoke for ages with the skipper of a Manhattan 80 who said he had glasses for a monster party, but no real "storage" to speak of. The ship-style ferretti engineering is glaringly obvious, as is their experience of monster boats. Ignore the twaddle about sunseeker 105 or predator 80 being fiirst such production boats: the fact is that ferretti and others have had such hulls in production for a long time, but are semi-custom - rather than production. As an example, ask if there's a two-generator option on a sunseeker 68, or on a predator 75 (nope). Ask for a bidet. Look at the diameter of the handrails on sunseeker, and compare with clever and beefier handrail/cleat design on ferretti 68 for example. Look at heavily bombproof corian kitchen in eyetie boats and hidden fact such as the dishwashers, tv's are top-range or professional grade in many italain boats, naffer in brit boats, but listed as "TV" in both brochures.

Downside for these boats is the rear end - and for stern-to mooring and stern-to living this is important. All have been diverted by the flipping jet-ski fad. Ignore this, rent a jet-ski for half an hour to get it out of your system, then specify a jetRIB only and plonk it out of the way on top rather than on the bathing platform.

The ferrettis seem much better thought out. I beleieve that there also more of them, and they've been making them sor many years, 80s and earlier ,when sunseeker were making speedboats. F's don't have the quick-fade hi-white sunseeker gloss. It'll look good for longer with the non-blue hull, and altho that admiittedly looks better at boats shows...the hull is never seen with stern-to med mooring.

I am super-wary of any rise-fall cantilevered and submerged bathing platform: you are knackered if this breaks, not so with a crane.

Some sunseekers have the idiotic high-gloss varnish in the galley on the work surface - I don't believe the Italians (who actually cook food) would dare do such a thing - but it sparkles at the boat show.

Negatives re ferretti: From memory, the smaller ferettis have a more tortuous route to the flybridge. I bet they could make this more teakily solid like p46 if you asked. The F's have less teak - loads of teak looks great on sunseeker, but this is all hard work to keep clean- so should be at a minimum. Unsure of ferretti representation if the boat is to be kept in the uk, and not many are seen - surely this size of boat should be in the med, tho? Also beware of the too-serious but so-called "classy" black leather in ferretis, doesn't look good in british eyes. But the yellow-marble bathrooms on larger ferrettis is a total wow.

Dare I suggest that the london boat show leaves you very pro-british boat? The dusseldorf boat show is now on, and the ferretti and fairline will be there, plus the azimut which is rec'd for forty something sizes, and many others.

Sorry can't recommend fairline, falling behind and never sorted the long long list of "snagging" on my own (targa 48) nor on many others. Sunseeker engineering seemed better qv the doorframes are properly jointed in sunseeker, but just screwed against bulkheads on the flines.

Worthwhile (again, if med) where exactly the aircon plants are located: you need them in the engine area out of the way, and not (fairline) under the flaming bed wihich keeps you awake. Also not in the spec - are the matresses sprung or crappy caravan uncomfy foam?

Finally, altho they are distant, go and see them? I just booked a 28 quid day return to Pisa for early feb from stansted.

Finally finally - make sure you have a berth sorted as there are loads more nice boats than nice berths. Buy from the local guy.

 

[jfm]

Agree much of what the others have said. Ferretti is mercedes type quality/longevity. TCM's sugg of a trip to Pisa is well worth it by the way,though Ferretti's are built on the East Coast unlike all the others. If asking prices are anything to go by, Ferrettis hold resal value well

But the Man56 is particulary good imho. It doesn't have the silly design extravagances of polished cherry kitchen tops and it does have proper kit incl dishwasher installed properly. The TV gear etc can be upgraded to proper stuff and it's still price competitive (BTW the worst here is fairline, they fit curved screen 4:3 ratio Grundigs, yku). Azimut 55 also worth a look, fab styling and better cabin layout than any other 55 footer (the owners is full width midships with tall aspect ratio hull windows).

Not sure I agree tcm's complaint about SS bathing platform. I dont know if these breakdown in prcatice, but it is perfectly possible to have reliable underwater hydraulics (eg the cheap mass produced power trim on outboards), and if it did fail in the down position you wouldn't be shipwrecked. If a crane breaks down that's pretty inconvenient too. And on the SSeeker you have the passerelle as a back up crane if you need it

 

[tcm]

Re: up/down swim platform

No direct experience of them. But.. there must be a track or something that they grind up and down? And when left in the water, that must be at risk of gunking up? And if lockup in down position, it is at least a diver or posssibly a lift-out job? Spoke to Princess/marine projects peeps who sed ooer it feels wrong.

 

[JimBOB]

As a relative new comer to this wonderful world I must admit I'm paying no attention to the all important bits!!!! returning from the LBS yesterday talking with the missus about how wonderful the F Phantom 43 was, but yet not giving a thought to any other aspect, apart from OOHH that looks nice. I imagine it comes with trial and error

Has anyone got any horror stories, bought a boat cause it looked nice only to find it didn't suit the purpose it was intended for, or are we all far to cleaver for that and research every aspect before that all important purchase.

 

[jfm]

Re: mechanics of up/down swim platform

Me no exp too. But trim tabs, rudders, bow thrusters, power trim systems etc all work fine. Surprising tho it may seem, it seems possible nowadays to have cheap mass produced hydraulics, lekky motors, etc and stuff it all undersaltwater, and still have it working a few years without busting. On sseeker, they don't slide on tracks, they go up/down on parallelogram pivot/lever mechanics. The new sealine S43 or wotever has sliders.

 

[tcm]

Re: reason for up/down swim platform

ah, pivoty IIgram sounds better. It's the problem of potential mating surfaces I don't like, so trim tabs props and bthrusters not the same.

Mind you... wasn't this a solution looking for a problem? I can't say that I have ever thought "if only the swim platform went up and down." Especially in the med where jumping in and getting back out and jumping in again etc is one the main things - so a clear swim platform v important imho. Only a very fat git getting out of water, or if landing a 500pound fish would it be necessary?

 

[Guest]

Hi Martin can't comment on your post like the other guys, but could'nt help noticing our similar profiles
location, Occupation, Boat (Broom). Can I ask where she's moored, just taken mine from Brighton to Thames
Regards

cneighbour

 

[jfm]

We like solutions without probs

Totally agree it is a solution looking for a prob. AKA boys toys. Like a separate CD hifi the foredeck cushions, etc etc. Like a 450bhp car, or a massive sportscruiser/flybridge boat in the med, in fact )

Anyway, praps they have a crankhandle with Sunseeker logo so you can wind it all up manually if the hydraulics fails, with only 450,000 turns lock to lock?

 

[tcm]

Re: postgrad at coventry?

This sounds exactly like the jag XK8, with remote control for the boot - but teensy keyhole thru the "8" on the rear logo for when the remote packs up after the first year, and automatic "too fast" text led which lights up above 125 for a few minutes.

Also, note that current sseeker brochure is jammed full of grundig 4:3 so probly knew you were coming on the stand ooer it's that dangerous bloke bart told us about who made us rebuild the inside of a 75footer cos a knot in the wrong place quick get down to tottenham Crt Road for soem of those sony's he mentioned at pisa...
;-)