Getting out of a finger berth astern (basic prop walk question)

[dom]

Complete tosh.
If you watch some working boats somewhat bigger than yours being manouevred in a small space, they won't be fannying around with prop walk.

Really, if it's an important handling characteristic then of course a pro will either use it or manage it!

 

[capnsensible]

Cos the right way is different for the QE2 and an SB20! Nothing wrong with manhandling light boats.

Fully agree with your guardwires and stanchions comment unless gripped close to their bases.

Trouble is, having spent a second career in marinas seeing what goes on, most people of all nationalities grab guard wires especially when next door boats are unattended. You would be surprised what goes on. ?

 

[capnsensible]

Complete tosh.
If you watch some working boats somewhat bigger than yours being manouevred in a small space, they won't be fannying around with prop walk. They may be using manual force.

You may find that a bit of a shove is being used in addition to prop walk. Not in place of it.

 

[James_Calvert]

The problem is some guard rail systems are inadequate for normal usage. For example the fuss some people make on here about using them to board a vessel is absurd, given how close this is dynamically to their espoused purpose. Some people won't even hang fenders on them! ?

 

[dom]

The problem is some guard rail systems are inadequate for normal usage. For example the fuss some people make on here about using them to board a vessel is absurd, given how close this is dynamically to their espoused purpose. Some people won't even hang fenders on them! ?

Trouble is 'normal' use differs. For example a racing yacht's stanchions may not be suitable to support a 20 stone bloke trying to heave himself aboard without a step. And remember these boats won't have a convenient boarding gate with strengthened hoops on either side. Heavier cruising boats will be different.

I think, instead of getting hooked on "the best way", "How to never fail pulling a woman" type of thing, we should simply be cognisant of the fact that - just like people - every boat is a little different and subsequently respect both their individual physics and owners.

IMHO of course!

 

[James_Calvert]

..... a racing yacht's stanchions may not be suitable to support a 20 stone bloke trying to heave himself aboard without a step.

Really? I would have thought these arrangements were subject to scrutiny by the race authorities, and surely a race boat is more likely than any other to suffer abuse of all its fittings. Are their guardrails just intended to serve for a one time event, like a car airbag?
I do understand your point, and of course they are not optimised to resist pushing inwards, but they must be able to resist a downwards/outwards pull to do their job.

 

[TernVI]

Really? I would have thought these arrangements were subject to scrutiny by the race authorities, and surely a race boat is more likely than any other to suffer abuse of all its fittings. Are their guardrails just intended to serve for a one time event, like a car airbag?
I do understand your point, and of course they are not optimised to resist pushing inwards, but they must be able to resist a downwards/outwards pull to do their job.

Nope.
They are there to keep the guardwires in the right place.
Stanchions are not intended to be particulary strong. There is a school of thought that in a minor collision it is better to lose a few stanchions without them taking big bits of hull and deck with them.

 

[newtothis]

Really? I would have thought these arrangements were subject to scrutiny by the race authorities, and surely a race boat is more likely than any other to suffer abuse of all its fittings. Are their guardrails just intended to serve for a one time event, like a car airbag?
I do understand your point, and of course they are not optimised to resist pushing inwards, but they must be able to resist a downwards/outwards pull to do their job.

I'd have thought racing boat guardrails perfectly up to the job, given that they usually have a row of gorillas hiked out on them.

 

[James_Calvert]

TernVI Fair enough, and when that happened to mine (a marina accident when we were moored up), a stanchion base snapped and a couple of stanchions bent. Still plenty strong enough for a big bloke to swing himself aboard though.

Even with the temporary lashup to the broken base...

 

[dom]

Really? I would have thought these arrangements were subject to scrutiny by the race authorities, and surely a race boat is more likely than any other to suffer abuse of all its fittings. Are their guardrails just intended to serve for a one time event, like a car airbag?
I do understand your point, and of course they are not optimised to resist pushing inwards, but they must be able to resist a downwards/outwards pull to do their job.

Agree with TernVI, the stanchions' primary role is to support the guardwires/lifelines and the racing rules consequently stipulate stanchion construction, lifeline tension, dimensions, etc. Their job as their name implies is primarily safety and - not to over push your analogy - one doesn't expect to dual purpose the airbag as for example a comfy picknick beanbag!

The reason I mention this is that I took a 25 stone friend onto a 50' race boat and from a safety perspective my heart skipped a beat watching the companionway steps flex as he descended into the cabin On the other hand rigging, spars, winches, rudder bearings, etc. will be much stronger than their cruising compatriots.

Horses for courses I suppose.

 

[englishrobs]

I feel your pain. Our Contessa 32 has a serious prop walk to port astern, we moor port side to. I vary my exit based on conditions, some days I just know there is no way I'm going to be able to slide gracefully out of the berth with a bit of assistance from the boat hook to push the stern off until I get steerage and then go ahead and turn out into the river. If there's much N in the wind there's no way I can get enough steerage before the bow is off. Having said that going ahead she turns on a sixpence and knowing about the prop walk makes turning in tight conditions much easier. Prop walk can just as much be your friend as your enemy, it is certainly worth spending some time just playing about with it. After 5 years with our current boat in our current berth I'm reasonably confident whatever the conditions but it always gives me pause for thought.

 

[Birdseye]

Complete tosh.
If you watch some working boats somewhat bigger than yours being manouevred in a small space, they won't be fannying around with prop walk. They may be using manual force.

Pompous tosh at that!

you’ve rumbled my plan to shortcut the sailing and go straight from the caff breakfast to the pub.

There to contemplate the likely cost of the forthcoming divorce. I used to know one guy who saw a squall coming when his wife was at the top of the mast - legged it into the clubhouse and left her there whilst it passed. He was a legend in his own lifetime.

 

[Sgeir]

If there is one type of music that you would like to ban, why would it be country and western?

 

[Stemar]

I have three routes out of our berth, and always let our Nic make the first move before deciding which one I will use. Gives me the upper hand!

That reminds me of a review of a long keeler, a Warrior, perhaps in one of the yottie comics. "How is she going astern?" "Oh, we just let her do what she wants and pretend we meant it"

 

[rotrax]

With her old prop, Jissel was completely predictably going astern. Kick to port, then weathercock to face downwind. Until the time I relied on her doing just that, which would have made for an elegant departure demonstrating consummate skill, when she did the exact opposite.

And this, Ladies and Gentlemen is why a boats is always a she.

Been there, done that................................

 

[davidpbo]

This thread is very heartening after the hash I nmade coming out of a finger berth yesterday. Light boat, strong wind blowing me off to starboard, tight berth. Offset outboard (In locker to starboard) I needed stern to go to starboard as I got away. It didn't happen and I found myself heading down to the dead end of the channel between pontoons.

Fortunately I managed to get some control and enough power in reverse to pull me back up to the open end of the channel. Made a complete hash of turning head to wind there but eventually managed to and proceeded towards where I wanted to go. It did upset me.

 

[Shuggy]

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This thread is very heartening after the hash I nmade coming out of a finger berth yesterday. Light boat, strong wind blowing me off to starboard, tight berth. Offset outboard (In locker to starboard) I needed stern to go to starboard as I got away. It didn't happen and I found myself heading down to the dead end of the channel between pontoons.

Fortunately I managed to get some control and enough power in reverse to pull me back up to the open end of the channel. Made a complete hash of turning head to wind there but eventually managed to and proceeded towards where I wanted to go. It did upset me.

It’s a bit like landing a plane (or so I’m told). Any landing when you and the machine walk away undamaged is a good landing.

 

[colind3782]

It’s a bit like landing a plane (or so I’m told). Any landing when you and the machine walk away undamaged is a good landing.

And if you can still use the plane again, it's a great one!

 

[rotrax]

Our long keel motorsailer weighs almost 20 tons loaded and has massive windage. First Mate is I/C steering while I deal with fenders and warps. We do have a powerful bow thruster that helps keep the pig straightish.

When investigating the best way to leave a berth, when asked what she thinks of my strategy she has been known to suggest "It might be better tomorrow!"

From time to time, men, impressed with her most excellent boat handling, have asked her advice on going astern in tight spaces with such a vessel.

Her reply is always the same " Lots of fenders, and pray hard! "