Getting older, is 45 foot too big?

TQA

TQA

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We are in Florida on a boat hunt. I have sailed a 38 footer before. SWMBO has not done much sailing. We are both in our early 60s. We are not planning anything adventurous like a circumnavigation, just island hopping around the Caribbean in our declinig years.

I have seen something that I like but she is a 45 footer described as " built on a racing hull redesigned into a live-aboard cruising yacht " with a conventional main. [I distrust roller furling mains.] I feel sure that I can manage her just now.

I will fit an electric anchor winch and might consider an electric halyard winch for the main in the future.

I would like to here from any older sailors who are still sailing 40+ footers. Are we biting off more than we can chew as we get older?


Oh yes I can not afford a cruising catamaran of reasonable size.
 
My auntie and her boyfriend have recently decided to 'swallow the anchor' after spending 15 years going around the world very slowly on his Cal 45 (this was his second trip around - he was going to hang up his wellies after the first, but then he met my auntie, and she decided there were a lot of places she wanted to see, and the boat would just have to take them around again.....
And she had never set foot on a sailing boat before she met him.
And most of the time it was just the two of them.
He is now 80, she is early 70s, and although the boat was comfortable she was anything but 'user friendly' - she is a heavy centre cockpit sloop with a stackpack main and roller furling genoa, built in the early 70s, and still with her original GM diesel. She has an electric anchor windlass, but no other electric winches, and they managed fine.
Based on their experiences, I would say to you 'go for it'!
 
My partner and I sail an older version beneteau first 435. Both in our 50's we plan on 'setting off' in a few years time. Our only worry is the size of the genoa ( big 150 % ). Even with Lewmar 55's a bitch to grind in. If the boat you are looking at has the same then that's the only thing I would worry about. Anything else should be a doddle.

Chris

( Yippee, my first post ! )
 
I'm a reasonably fit 64 year old of average build and a gym user. I am finding a modern 36 ft 7 tonne boat a bit daunting. The particular issue is the genoa winches (Lewmar 44s) and this could be even worse for you if its an older converted racer with a 150 overlapper.

Recently I tried short tacking the boat hard on the wind, genoa only and single handed . I managed 4 tacks in maybe 20 mins and was then absolutely ****ed! No more than 15kn over the deck.

So I guess it depends more on how you sail the boat, and the sail plan. Pal has a Freedom 39 with 2 masts and no foresail. Would be no problem.

The other issue of course is that you will not be getting any more able to handle the boat but less so every year. So even if you could manage it at first, for how long?

I think I would go for the smallest boat I thought I could manage with. That's what I should have done

P.S. My impression of round the world sailing ( I've never done it) is that its mostly downwind in trade winds, and you wait for the right conditions. My sailing is 50% hard on the wind.
 
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As long as everything goes along swimmingly 45 feet is not too big,its when problem occur and the evey thing is that much heavier ,bigger as you know.Getting a big boat ready for asail is at times just too much and you may find yourself doing less sailing and having much less fun.
 
Just because the boat was designed with a large overlapping genoa as it's largest headsail (presuming it was) it doesn't mean you have to cruise with one. After all the original race crew would've changed to smaller headsails to suit the conditions. A smaller genny or a 100% jib will make life easier and will in all likelyhood set better when partially rolled. Just means you'll have to consider motoring more in light airs.

I agree however with the comment that if you don't need a boat this big you should seriously consider going for something a bit smaller. As that poster said, the problem is when things go wrong. Sometimes brute force & ignorance is an effective solution on smaller boats, but the larger the boat the more you have to rely on skill & experience.
 
mogy said:
As long as everything goes along swimmingly 45 feet is not too big,its when problem occur and the evey thing is that much heavier ,bigger as you know.Getting a big boat ready for asail is at times just too much and you may find yourself doing less sailing and having much less fun.
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Spot on. Under normal circumstances you'll manage just fine but one day you'll leave the sail up in the hope the gust will die down again and it won't. Fighting a big spread of canvas in a rising wind could go from hard work to dangerous in a very short time. Power winches to help with sail handling can fail so you need to be sure you can handle everything by Armstrong's Patent alone.

Of course the bigger the boat the more comfortable you'll be when stationary which is 80%+ of the time when cruising.
 
a lot depends on the details of the "racing hull"

If it is from the late 70's early 80's then it should be no problem as designs from this period for cruiser racers are pretty good (oyster 37, first 435, jenneau sunfizz, the Ron Holland designed swans etc). In the US, generally their boats were less extreme in this period than those designed by the european contemporaries (Look at Doug Peterson or Dave Pedrick's designs vs Stephen Jones or Phillipe Briand from the same era)

If a late IOR designed hull ('85 onwards, with a narrow waterline beam and wide beam at deck level), then probably not a great idea.

I'd take a close look at the rig design. If a race boat, chances are in-line spreaders and runners/checkstays so that mast bend could be actively used to shape the mainsail, whereas a cruising rig will have twin sets of lowers and/or swept back spreaders. Why does this matter? You want a stable rig that doesn't need runners released and re-set for each tack and gybe and fitting new chainplates may be expensive.

45ft shouldn't be too big if the boat is set up correctly. Good quality sheaves, turning blocks and decent running rigging (spectra to reduce the diameter and massively reduce the friction), properly sized self tailing winches, control lines led to a safe cockpit area, good quality headsail furler etc. These are the details that can make two identical boats either a pleasure or a pain to sail.
A fully battened main with good quality batten cars and a 120/130% genoa perhaps cut with a high clew and 45' should be very manageable.
A larger heavier boat will also be thrown around less in lumpy seas, and this is less tiring on the crew. A deep forefoot to minimise slamming should also be high on your priorities.

So length per se shouldn't be the concern.
 
I don't think a boat that size need be a problem to sail shorthanded if the systems are well sorted. I sail a 49' Amel out of Florida from time to time and that is no problem because it has electric winches and furlers. On the other hand, our heavy displacement 41' ketch with no mod cons was a bit of a handful.
If I were doing the island hopping routine to the Caribbean again I'd look for something up to 40', draught less than 6', (nearer to 5' would be better), underbody configuration that can take the ground, protected rudder, big engine and sheltered steering position or a pilot house. It would have davits to carry a RIB, electric windlass, good ground tackle, good bimini that can be deployed even underway. Good ventilation is a must and an electrical system that can support a fridge and watermaker.
Although I'd be looking for good sailing performance, I'd be wary of a 'racing' hull if that means long, lean appendages and a wet ride.
 
In harbour a big boat can be a right struggle too. Mooring warps are heavier, it's a long leap from the gunwhale to the pontoon, more and larger fenders etc, etc.

I vividly recall 5 of us struggling in a F6 to push a 48ft Oyster off the dock so a fender could be replaced.
 
TQA said:
We are in Florida on a boat hunt. I have sailed a 38 footer before. SWMBO has not done much sailing. We are both in our early 60s. We are not planning anything adventurous like a circumnavigation, just island hopping around the Caribbean in our declinig years.

I have seen something that I like but she is a 45 footer described as " built on a racing hull redesigned into a live-aboard cruising yacht " with a conventional main. [I distrust roller furling mains.] I feel sure that I can manage her just now.

I will fit an electric anchor winch and might consider an electric halyard winch for the main in the future.

I would like to here from any older sailors who are still sailing 40+ footers. Are we biting off more than we can chew as we get older?


Oh yes I can not afford a cruising catamaran of reasonable size.
Click to expand...

There are some interesting answers here and I agree with most of them but would add that while you might manage a 44 ft boat OK there is absolutely no need for a boat of over 36ft for two people. I am a fit 66 year old but my new lady, while younger has had a back operation in the past. She is quite agile but does not like leaping off the bows on to a pontoon, or grinding winches. I have a Prout Snowgoose Cat presently and this is fine for her especially as it does not require sailing at an angle but the big genny is a handful on a tack. I am considering going back to a monohull now (!!!!) as the sort of cruising we now want to do entails a lot of canal work. The spec we have decided is important is as follows.....

Rig: Must be easy to handle with self tacking sails if possible. Ketch rig would be ideal.

Keel type: As shoal draught as possible. No deep fins as they restrict where you can go. Must be able to dry out, with legs if necessary. Lifting keel ideal, long keel good. Bilge keels maybe.

Engine: Big enough to get home in any good blow without struggling with raggie things.

Manouverability: must be easy to handle. long keels would need bow thruster.

Decks: Must be safe to move around at sea but easy to get ashore from midships if not at the bow. (leaping onto pontoons is unnecessary if you can handle the boat well).

Ground tackle: Substantial. lots of heavy chain plus electric windlass.

Sailing performance: Not a high priority but good to potter.

Accommodation: Comfortable, especially when underway. Deckhouse saloons are attractive..

It sounds like your ex racer might fail our criteria completely, but you have to consider your own criteria carefully point by point..... Never fall in love with a woman or a boat because she looks pretty. She may have incurable habits you can't abide when you know her better.
 
TQA said:
We are in Florida on a boat hunt. I have sailed a 38 footer before. SWMBO has not done much sailing. We are both in our early 60s. We are not planning anything adventurous like a circumnavigation, just island hopping around the Caribbean in our declinig years.

I have seen something that I like but she is a 45 footer described as " built on a racing hull redesigned into a live-aboard cruising yacht " with a conventional main. [I distrust roller furling mains.] I feel sure that I can manage her just now..
Click to expand...

Given that you're in America, and that was the sales pitch for the boat, it's not one of those Hunter attempts at a lightweight cruising boats is it? The smaller sister of this?

http://www.sailingtexas.com/shunter50100.html
 
Another two pennies worth.

If your going to cruise the Carib, how comfortable is the cockpit? a) for sailing and b) for sipping G&T in the evening.

The cockpit design of so many boats is ****, even today. (too wide to brace your feet, back rests that are the wrong angle/height, etc etc) Race boats had no real need to consider comfort in this fashion, just function.

Wrt the race hull form, the plus side is you should be able to stomp over most boats up wind, the down side is the reduced volume below, particuallry back aft. With two it might not be a problem, but a big comfortable double would be high on my priority list.

Thw rig/winches etc can always be fiddled with. Agreed better to start as near as possible with something you want, but you can always fit electric winches/inboom furling etc/ smaller head sails. (I note your dislike for inmast, and fair enough although we have had one for 5 years and it has jammed maybe 2-3 times, down to my own fault at being too hasty, not letting of the back stay!)

What ever you choose, good luck and enjoy the rum!
 
Thanks for all the input. My main worry was that no one else was out there still sailing a 45 footer into there late 60s. I knew that the Hiscocks cruised well into their 70s on Wanderer V which was a big steel 48 footer, but they were a bit more experienced than us.

The balance between anchor comfort and ease of sail/anchor handling is not an easy one but I think bigger might be better for us.

We are definitely not looking at the Hunter in Texas but a Hunter 42 Passage from the early 90s is on our list of possibles. Great aft cabin and lots of good liveaboard features, not much storage though. I would avoid the later version as it has no backstay.

We keep coming back to a CSY 44 though, overbuilt for the charter business, 400 gallons of water and a comfortable centre cockpit.
 
CSY 44s are nice boats - built like the proverbial outhouses, in the days before watermakers, hence it was very nice to have 400 gallons on tap!
I sailed on one in the mid 80s - they do need a bit of a breeze to get them going, but then that means that they are steadily and comfortably surging along when lighter vessels are bouncing around uncomfortably.

There were a couple for sale recently on here http://www.yachtworld.com/bviyachtsales/index.html but I have just seen that they have gone - a few other possible boats of interest for you there though.
Although Florida is probably a better place than the BVIs to pick up a 'bargain'.
 
Getting older- is 45ft too big

Could you consider a self tacking set-up for the foresail when the wind pipes up and use the genoa in the lighter airs;it would be OK short tacking but down wind you'd lose performance/speed. I'd be wary of a former racer for a cruising boat myself -but wish I had a choice!!


Ianat182
 
TQA said:
I knew that the Hiscocks cruised well into their 70s on Wanderer V which was a big steel 48 footer, but they were a bit more experienced than us.
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Not quite right. Wanderer IV was the big steel ketch. They found it became too much for them and downsized to number V which was a 39 ft wooden boat.
 
snowleopard said:
Not quite right. Wanderer IV was the big steel ketch. They found it became too much for them and downsized to number V which was a 39 ft wooden boat.
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OOPS got my facts wrong then, memory is failing still I suppose it is 40 years since I read about all his teething problems. Hmm The Hiscocks downsized, more to think about.

One good thing in the Caribbean is that once you get to the Windward/Leeward chain there is not much tacking. Just a close reach between Islands. Our likely sailchange problem will be taking in a mainsail reef if required on passage.
 
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