Getting Good Crew for Bigger Boats

[savageseadog]

How is it your sailing areas. We need 9 crew plus helm for a 38ft racing yacht of which 4-5 really need to know what they're doing. It's proving very difficult for us in the NW. We used to have a pool of about 20 of which between 5-10 turn up. This has dwindled away over the last 12 months and we're struggling to get 5-6 now, How is the South Coast in particular? Is it all cliques or do you have a stream of fresh people? My experience of younger people and students is that they have far too many other things to do. Most reliable crew are 50 up.

 

[loa]

It's just as difficult in SW France. Even with "older crew", the problem is life outside of sailing. Strange but true.

 

[lpdsn]

Do you have a good idea why people are leaving? Just never interested enough in the first place to be regulars, or leaving for more competitive boats, or just circumstances outside your control (jobs, sprogs etc).

 

[bigwow]

Try press ganging:encouragement: worked for Capt Bligh

 

[roblpm]

At least 2 of the top boats at our club have downsized. One from 40 ft to 32ft and one from 36ft to nothing yet. Seems like a perennial problem. I suggested more two handed races at our club but no real interest.

 

[flaming]

Different aspects to this.

Attracting new people to sail with you.
Attracting good crew to sail with you.
Keeping the good people.

I've been doing the crew management for our boat for about 7 years now. In the solent the first part, attracting new people has never been easier. We have 2 fantastic facebook groups that adverts for people seeking crew, and crew seeking rides, get placed on. I put a quick add for crew at the start of last year and I had 30 responses. Ended up with 3 incredibly good sailors, all of whom have been a pleasure to have on the boat, and 2 of whom will be regulars for the foreseeable future. (The other one returned to Ireland, otherwise she would be too!) I've also used it to get crew with less than 24 hours notice when someone was ill.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/807735232653760/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/838050656242885/

If nothing similar exists for your area, create it. Then just invite all your sailing friends, and get them to invite all their sailing friends etc. Before you know it you'll have everyone who's interested in sailing in the region registered. This is what social media excels at! Just make sure you set it up as a private group that people have to be approved to join, that way you can kick the inevitable spammers off.

Getting good crew, and keeping crew, are in my opinion linked. If you cannot keep good crew when other boats are you're doing something wrong. That could be anything from being a shouty helm, to skimping on the safety gear to simply not showing any motivation to improve past the middle of the fleet. I've known all three of those, and more, to be reasons that good crew have stepped off a boat. And don't forget, good crew know other good crew. And when good crew are thinking of joining a new boat they do research. They use social media, they work out who they know that has sailed with you, or against you and they get references. I get asked about boats I sail against a lot. If you have a core of good crew then you'll attract good crew. If you have a core of people who are new to the sport, you'll struggle to attract experienced people. It's a catch 22, and difficult to break but it can be done if you're careful with your selections and above all are always looking out for crew, not just when you need them.

Then finally, get organised. Down on the solent it's a rare crew that sails on only one boat. The good guys, who live for racing, will sail every weekend. So decide in January what your calendar is for the year, and start filling your crew spots. This means that you should get first shout at any crew that have other rides, and that any events that no regulars can sail can be identified early.

 

[savageseadog]

Do you have a good idea why people are leaving? Just never interested enough in the first place to be regulars, or leaving for more competitive boats, or just circumstances outside your control (jobs, sprogs etc).

We are reasonably competitive thank you!

We did have a problem with a very shouty crew member but that's been solved! I take all of flaming's points on board, I have been aware of crew management issues. It was interesting to know that crew on the South coast switch between boats as that's considered bad form around these parts.

I've had a stream of beginners with "Competent Crew" qualifications most of whom have been hopeless.

 

[RobbieW]

...I've had a stream of beginners with "Competent Crew" qualifications most of whom have been hopeless.

On this point alone; you could have Yachtmasters turning up who are equally hopeless. Racing requires a more specialised skill set than ordinary sailing which is not generally taught but rather acquired through experience. One thought, which perhaps chimes with Flaming's, is that if you take the trouble to teach crew what is expected and make them part of a competent team they may choose to stay with you longer - bit like employees really. If you expect them to hit the ground running and they fail to live up to your expectation it is unlikely to be satisfactory for either party.

One of the more successful boats I've raced with insisted on going out early enough for each race to go through most sail handling processes before a start to ensure everyone was settled into their role. Most importantly spinnaker hoist, gybe & drop - more than once.

 

[savageseadog]

On this point alone; you could have Yachtmasters turning up who are equally hopeless. Racing requires a more specialised skill set than ordinary sailing which is not generally taught but rather acquired through experience. One thought, which perhaps chimes with Flaming's, is that if you take the trouble to teach crew what is expected and make them part of a competent team they may choose to stay with you longer - bit like employees really. If you expect them to hit the ground running and they fail to live up to your expectation it is unlikely to be satisfactory for either party.

One of the more successful boats I've raced with insisted on going out early enough for each race to go through most sail handling processes before a start to ensure everyone was settled into their role. Most importantly spinnaker hoist, gybe & drop - more than once.

I'd love to go out early but can't due to locking restrictions. It's through the gate, sometimes enough time to hoist sail (not always the case), five minutes, bang and go

 

[flaming]

It was interesting to know that crew on the South coast switch between boats as that's considered bad form around these parts.

Not normally in the same event to be fair...
For example I've done J109 nationals etc whilst I've been sailing on the Elan.

Works quite well in many cases as often some boats that don't do the same events end up effectively sharing crew. We had a period a while back where half the crew that went offshore with another boat ended up sailing round the cans with us. That only ended when the other boat's owner started doing more round the cans and more events clashed.

I've had a stream of beginners with "Competent Crew" qualifications most of whom have been hopeless.

Do you take the time to chat to these people before you invite them out? A quick chat is normally enough to know if they've ever done much racing. Nothing wrong (and indeed everything right) with bringing newbies out to play provided you explain exactly what you want them to do, and have enough people you trust on board.

 

[lpdsn]

We are reasonably competitive thank you!

We did have a problem with a very shouty crew member but that's been solved! I take all of flaming's points on board, I have been aware of crew management issues. It was interesting to know that crew on the South coast switch between boats as that's considered bad form around these parts.

I've had a stream of beginners with "Competent Crew" qualifications most of whom have been hopeless.

A shouty crew member can be a serious issue driving people away. Could just be his character, but he could also be reacting to a lack of organisation on the boat. Clamp down on him - one technique I've seen work quite well is to start micro-managing him at his own job whenever he starts giving out at anyone else in the crew. But you also need to hold debriefs to find out what the underlying issues are that he his shouting at. It was actually a cricket player who highlighted one factor that I think is very true. He said they usually found it impossible to assemble 11 players whose levels of competitiveness overlapped. If he is the most competitive crew member you and he both have to learn to manage that and manage the rest of the crew's level of competitiveness.

Grab those 'Comp Crews'. Expect nothing of them except a bit of enthusiasm, but you can train them up. Some of them might be very competitive, they just don't have the skills yet.

I've regularly sailed on multiple boats in parallel. Agreeing to do certain events on one boat whilst doing others on another. In this day and age the owner owns the boat not the crew and I'd react quite strongly to any attempt to say I couldn't sail on another boat, as long as I've met the commitments I've made to the first. I do try to make the priorities clear when I join a boat that is not my 'main' boat.

I think of the boats I've stepped off, most have been because they have reached the stage where they couldn't progress any further. In most cases, the owner has been the limiting factor.

 

[flaming]

I think of the boats I've stepped off, most have been because they have reached the stage where they couldn't progress any further. In most cases, the owner has been the limiting factor.

Agree with that. The only exception was when I left a boat I was having a great time on. The only reason I left that one was that the opportunity to helm came up, and I still sail with them from time to time.

 

[lw395]

I don't race big boats much.
But when I do, the best boats to get involved with are those that will have some sort of training/practice session with new crew.
When I raced my own boat, I liked to do an evening session of kite up, gybe, kite down etc, with people changing roles a bit.
As it didn't clash with a race day, I'd get another helm/skipper to come out, so I could just move around the boat seeing what was going on.
Then take time to discuss lessons learned over a pizza or something.

The other thing is, it's easier to get people to come if you are offering them a series, not just filling in at your convenience.
That might mean taking an extra body now and then.


Is it you that has the issue or the fleet generally?
Some fleets work together to promote a pool of crew.

The other thing is, if you race saturdays, sound out dinghy sailors who race sundays etc.

 

[MissFitz]

In Brighton, we do a thing called Club Class twice a year. Six Saturday mornings of tuition on & off the water (spring & autumn), with as many race boats as can manage it turning up to take people out. The training is all focused around racing, so it gives people the basics & quickly weeds out those who are never going to want to race. (We had one woman who came all the way from Oxford, & went straight back again when she discovered that racing involving people moving around the boat.) It's aimed at newbies but more experienced sailors who are new to the club often do it as well as it's a good way to try out different boats (they try to move everyone around each week) & make friends. Seems to work pretty well - we don't have a huge fleet but they are mostly bigger boats & most don't seem to have a problem with crew. Maybe worth considering?

 

[Mudisox]

On this point alone; you could have Yachtmasters turning up who are equally hopeless. Racing requires a more specialised skill set than ordinary sailing which is not generally taught but rather acquired through experience. One thought, which perhaps chimes with Flaming's, is that if you take the trouble to teach crew what is expected and make them part of a competent team they may choose to stay with you longer - bit like employees really. If you expect them to hit the ground running and they fail to live up to your expectation it is unlikely to be satisfactory for either party.

One of the more successful boats I've raced with insisted on going out early enough for each race to go through most sail handling processes before a start to ensure everyone was settled into their role. Most importantly spinnaker hoist, gybe & drop - more than once.

I have always understood that in order to get everyone "into the groove" one should carry out 10 tacks up the course and then 4 gybes before the start. So get out there early especially in these days of shorter dinghy style W/l races. It lengthens the time on the water and sailing, especially if folk come from any distance to crew.

 

[flaming]

I have always understood that in order to get everyone "into the groove" one should carry out 10 tacks up the course and then 4 gybes before the start. So get out there early especially in these days of shorter dinghy style W/l races. It lengthens the time on the water and sailing, especially if folk come from any distance to crew.

The only time that becomes a problem is when you have a settled crew who've become firm friends, and it's hard to stop the chatter and get them to put sails up!

 

[temptress]

How is it your sailing areas. We need 9 crew plus helm for a 38ft racing yacht of which 4-5 really need to know what they're doing. It's proving very difficult for us in the NW. We used to have a pool of about 20 of which between 5-10 turn up. This has dwindled away over the last 12 months and we're struggling to get 5-6 now, How is the South Coast in particular? Is it all cliques or do you have a stream of fresh people? My experience of younger people and students is that they have far too many other things to do. Most reliable crew are 50 up.

I go crew hunting in the local university sailing club. IMO you need to offer regular sailing and regular practice sessions to build a crew.

 

[temptress]

I'd love to go out early but can't due to locking restrictions. It's through the gate, sometimes enough time to hoist sail (not always the case), five minutes, bang and go

then go out on other days. the more you practice the luckier you get

 

[Neil_Y]

Invite dinghy sailors and buy them beer, if they have raced dinghies they will be good race crew on a yacht. Yacht crew on dinghies doesn't work quite as well.

 

[howard easton]

At least 2 of the top boats at our club have downsized. One from 40 ft to 32ft and one from 36ft to nothing yet. Seems like a perennial problem. I suggested more two handed races at our club but no real interest.

Not sure this will be any better. Might even be worse. My boat needs just 4 crew and max is 5. Keeping a reasonable number of "spares" and keeping their interest becomes harder because of space shortage.

If your normal is 9 then its easier to accommodate an extra 2