German Torpedo found in Scapa flow

Werner describes pretty much the same; he was recieving constant reports of other U - Boats sunk in huge numbers, he knew the Allies were flattening Germany and invading from all directions; his family were bombed repeatedly, his U-Boat was obsolete and he only survived by experience & luck - but when Doenitz promised him one of the next generation subs and said ' miracle weapons are on the way ' he, as he puts it, wanted to believe him so carried on.

It was only when Allies were virtually knocking on the hatch when alongside for repairs that he let himself realise it was over.

Even then he goes on about the destruction of beautiful German cities and people killed, never says ' well we started it ' - and he wasn't even a Nazi...
 
Lyndsey Doyle said:
Good morning, what a fascinating historic find, let's hope it can be put in a museum rather than being blown up.

It must have been quite something for the diver who was chiselling off the barnacles and realised what he was hammering, is there such a thing as a 'brown wet-suit moment' ;)

Some interesting comments have been made about the reliability of torpedos...

After the Falklands War, it emerged that Commander Chris Wreford-Brown, of HMS Conqueror, had a choice of torpedos with which to attack the Arg vessel Belgrano.

He decided to use a Mark 8 to make sure of the job, or actually two or three of them I believe.

These weapons were designed in the 1920's, and powered by clockwork, or some such 'steampunk' method, but he was sure they would arrive on target and do the business, having no on-board computers etc...

To Mr Seajet, thank you for the book reccomendation. Yacht designer Maurice Griffiths' memoir of WW2 mining, and mine countermeasures, is another good one, if you come across a copy.

Enjoy the sunshine LD
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On a lighter note, one of my favourite, apparently true stories about mine work - think it's in the book I mention...

When going out to defuse a new type of mine it was standard for the officer doing it to lay a telephone line to a chap at a safe distance and say every move he was making, so if it went wrong they'd know next time.

On one occasion an officer doing this had a reporter with him; not unreasonably, the reporter's nerve failed so he legged it back up the beach, tripping over the phone line so pulling the officer around and whipping the fuse straight out of the mine; obviously he got away with it but there's no record of the chat between them afterwards.
 
Seajet said:
On a lighter note, one of my favourite, apparently true stories about mine work - think it's in the book I mention...

When going out to defuse a new type of mine it was standard for the officer doing it to lay a telephone line to a chap at a safe distance and say every move he was making, so if it went wrong they'd know next time.

On one occasion an officer doing this had a reporter with him; not unreasonably, the reporter's nerve failed so he legged it back up the beach, tripping over the phone line so pulling the officer around and whipping the fuse straight out of the mine; obviously he got away with it but there's no record of the chat between them afterwards.
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Something like:-
"Oh, you silly man. Here, let me buy you a drink to show no hard feelings, but please be careful next time.":rolleyes:
 
dylanwinter said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-35707243

one of the Prien torpedos that failed to detonate?
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On an even lighter note. A film of the event was made with Michael Caine playing Prien. Of course, after the torpedoing he quipped to his weapons leutnant:

"You vere only suppost to blow ze blutty doors off."

Sorrreeee :o


Back to the thread. If that torpedo could be raised and deactivated it really would make an incredible museum attraction - but where: Imperial War Museum, or Orkney?
 
I've been reading a couple of books a out Commander Walker, who worked himself to death hunting U-boats. Can't remember authors, but well worth looking for. Walker, RN was one title.
 
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Robert Wilson said:
.... If that torpedo could be raised and deactivated it really would make an incredible museum attraction - but where: Imperial War Museum, or Orkney?
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Good question, who owns it? I would guess the British Crown, as part of war reparations or something?

The sub museum at Pompey seems logical, or if not, send it back to Mrs Merkel, having started it ticking first.
 
Keen_Ed said:
I've been reading a couple of books a out Commander Walker, who worked himself to death hunting U-boats. Can't remember authors, but well worth looking for.
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I think I read that.Brilliant book :encouragement:

Bugger the torpedo,not worth risking lives over.Besides I expect they have a got a few similar ones kicking around down the submarine museum in Gosport.

I notice looking through the pages of Country Life down the Library yesterday some historians reckon they've found the bones of the Holigost up the Hamble river.Now that's worth wasting money on.They could put it alongside the Mary Rose :rolleyes:
 
Lyndsey Doyle said:
After the Falklands War, it emerged that Commander Chris Wreford-Brown, of HMS Conqueror, had a choice of torpedos with which to attack the Arg vessel Belgrano.

He decided to use a Mark 8 to make sure of the job, or actually two or three of them I believe.

These weapons were designed in the 1920's, and powered by clockwork, or some such 'steampunk' method, but he was sure they would arrive on target and do the business, having no on-board computers etc...
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For anyone interested.

The Mk8 torpedo had a diesel engine. A lot of the main body of the torpedo was a pressure vessel charged with high pressure air to enable the engine to run.

On the front end was a significant quantity of TORPEX explosive. If you wish to engage a WW2 cruiser, you need a big bang.
 
capnsensible said:
For anyone interested.

The Mk8 torpedo had a diesel engine. A lot of the main body of the torpedo was a pressure vessel charged with high pressure air to enable the engine to run.

On the front end was a significant quantity of TORPEX explosive. If you wish to engage a WW2 cruiser, you need a big bang.
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And I believe it was "wire-guided".
I found that hard to believe when I was shown round "one of our submarines" atVickers in Barrow-in-Furness and was told this by "someone who should know" (apparently).
I later heard confirmation of this in some other TV report.

Can this be true? Torpedoes on a nuclear submarine guided by a thin wire paying out from the sub?
 
The Mk 8 torpedo control settings were put into the weapon before it was fired. Bye, bye, fingers crossed you got your sums right.

Submarine launched torpedeos designed since at least 1970 odd have been wire guided.

Clever, eh?
 
capnsensible said:
The Mk 8 torpedo control settings were put into the weapon before it was fired. Bye, bye, fingers crossed you got your sums right.

Submarine launched torpedeos designed since at least 1970 odd have been wire guided.

Clever, eh?
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It was early 70s that I was in "Superb", so the ossifa probably was not telling porkies!!
 
I remember one of the newspapers printing a big article just after the sinking of the Belgrano praising the technology of the new high tech wire guided torpedo, probably all written and paid for by BAE Systems.
It then emerged that the commander had not trusted the wire guided high tech torpedo to do the job, and I believe thought that it might give away his position to the accompanying Argentine destroyer (The one that ran away instead of picking up survivors) so he used the old reliable WW2 job instead.
 
Norman_E said:
... I believe thought that it might give away his position to the accompanying Argentine destroyer
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Sorry, don't mean to take the mick but I've got visions of this sailor hooking the wire out of the water and reeling in a submarine.... :)
 
Keen_Ed said:
I've been reading a couple of books a out Commander Walker, who worked himself to death hunting U-boats. Can't remember authors, but well worth looking for. Walker, RN was one title.
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Walker RN by Terence Robertson.

What a fabulous bloke Walker was, I've long thought he and HMS Starling deserve a top notch film.

As for choice of torpedo, I think I'd listen to capnsensible.

The way I've read it in various books,

A, not too trusting of the wire guided jobs,

B, big bang required against a heavily armoured WWII cruiser as mentioned.

The Belgrano was the ex-USS Phoenix and as such a survivor of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour - the large loss of life ( 390 ) when she was sunk in 1982 must be laid largely at the door of her Captain, Bonzo, who was tooling along with the doors and hatches open; may not have quite been in the exclusion zone but a bloody obviously dodgy place to be.
 
Norman_E said:
I remember one of the newspapers printing a big article just after the sinking of the Belgrano praising the technology of the new high tech wire guided torpedo, probably all written and paid for by BAE Systems.
It then emerged that the commander had not trusted the wire guided high tech torpedo to do the job, and I believe thought that it might give away his position to the accompanying Argentine destroyer (The one that ran away instead of picking up survivors) so he used the old reliable WW2 job instead.
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The high tech torpedo was the M24 which I spent some considerable time doing trials with. At the time of the Falklands war it had not been adapted to attack surface ships hence the use of the old faithful Mk 8. I think also at the time the weather was bad enough to mask the exhaust trail of the Mk 8. The Mk 24 was later adapted to attack surface ships allowing the venerable Mk 8 to be retired.

Interestingly during WW2 the Mk 8 was very new and in short supply and was supposed to be used only against other submarines and high value targets. Also the RN submarine service also suffered a very high loss rate during that war especially cutting Rommel's supply lines in the Mediterranean.
 
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