German Flare "Launchers" - Legality

[alisdair4]

I have to replace some of my flares this year, and, being in Germany, have looked at waht is available. I spotted this item: http://www.awn.de/Technik/Sicherheit/Rettungsmittel/Notsignale/Nico+Signalgeber.html which might fit the bill. Notwithstanding the relative efficacy of this versus handheld flares, does anyone know if these are legal in UK? (I am taking the boat back to UK this summer). I don't have, nor intend to acquire a shotgun licence, which is what I beleive I would need for a flare pistol. Thanks

 

[prv]

It looks like it ought to fall into the same bracket as miniflares -

- which are legal in UK.

They're small and generally have a fairly short burn time, so not really a substitute for handhelds I reckon.

Pete

 

[Bertramdriver]

The Nico launcher was originally featured in the now defunct Compass Catalogue, but disappeared and listed as not available. Probably killed off by the post office refusing to ship rather than any legal issues.
TBH I'm not happy driving around with a bucket of pyrotechnics under my helm seat so something like this appeals. I've been looking at the laser flares which seem to make more sense but then you have to ask how many mariners would recognise the signal as a cry for help. Difficult.

 

[jerrytug]

The launcher looks very handy compared to my miniflares ( like Pete's lower photo) which are fiddly.
I think they have borrowed some design features from John Wayne's 6-shooter or something.
Do you feel lucky? Well do you punk?
Seems like a well designed product and surely must be acceptable in UK, when mini flares definitely are. German chandlers seem to have a lot of interesting things..

 

[Stork_III]

The Nico launcher was originally featured in the now defunct Compass Catalogue, but disappeared and listed as not available. Probably killed off by the post office refusing to ship rather than any legal issues.
TBH I'm not happy driving around with a bucket of pyrotechnics under my helm seat so something like this appeals. I've been looking at the laser flares which seem to make more sense but then you have to ask how many mariners would recognise the signal as a cry for help. Difficult.

It was shown in the Compass Catalogue as "not available for UK". I believe it is not legal without a firearms license in the Uk.

 

[prv]

I believe it is not legal without a firearms license in the Uk.

Any idea what the crucial difference is between the Nico and the miniflares?

Pete

 

[Stork_III]

Any idea what the crucial difference is between the Nico and the miniflares?

Pete

One is manual, one has rotating barrel, I believe.

 

[prv]

One is manual, one has rotating barrel, I believe.

Ah, so each squeeze of the trigger will fire a flare and move on to the next?

Seems a bit silly, but if that's really the problem then I guess they could make a UK version where you rotate the cylinder by hand between shots.

Pete

 

[Keith 66]

The miniflares are a self contained flare which is launched by a .22 blank integral with the flare from a penjector as they call it. It has no barrel so is not a firearm. The Nico one appears to use the same system but unless home office have approved it it probably falls foul of the law.
Anything that uses a fixed barrel or chamber such as a very pistol or the Dial a star is regarded as a firearm so requires an Fac.

 

[David2452]

Ah, so each squeeze of the trigger will fire a flare and move on to the next?

Seems a bit silly, but if that's really the problem then I guess they could make a UK version where you rotate the cylinder by hand between shots.

Pete

You have to rotate the barrel manually on the Nico signal too, the trigger is arranged so it will not engage unless the barrel is pointing skyward but it is still possible to keep a little pressure and lower the barrel and fire, they are considered a firearm requiring a licence in UK and withdrawn from general sale. They are quite handy as you can load three white and three reds or any combination.

 

[alisdair4]

Ok, thanks all. "bang" (if you pardon the pun!) goes another idea! Incidentally, why are the UK so anally retentive - the marinas of Germany are not full of yotties with burning flare cartridges sticking out of their smocks! Please don't start me on petrol pumps..!

You have to rotate the barrel manually on the Nico signal too, the trigger is arranged so it will not engage unless the barrel is pointing skyward but it is still possible to keep a little pressure and lower the barrel and fire, they are considered a firearm requiring a licence in UK and withdrawn from general sale. They are quite handy as you can load three white and three reds or any combination.

 

[David2452]

It's all about the cartridge being in a chamber, it is not difficult to get a FAC if you can show a legitimate purpose, from memory they are free of cost for safety projectile devices.

 

[jerrytug]

It's all about the cartridge being in a chamber, it is not difficult to get a FAC if you can show a legitimate purpose, from memory they are free of cost for safety projectile devices.

Really? that's very interesting, I will look in to it.

 

[BERT T]

I have to replace some of my flares this year, and, being in Germany, have looked at waht is available. I spotted this item: http://www.awn.de/Technik/Sicherheit/Rettungsmittel/Notsignale/Nico+Signalgeber.html which might fit the bill. Notwithstanding the relative efficacy of this versus handheld flares, does anyone know if these are legal in UK? (I am taking the boat back to UK this summer). I don't have, nor intend to acquire a shotgun licence, which is what I beleive I would need for a flare pistol. Thanks

This may be of interest!
A JURY has decided that owning a gun capable of firing flares 500ft into the air does not require a firearms licence.

http://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/n...are-gun-does-not-need-licence-court-1-3143288

 

[GrahamM376]

This may be of interest!
A JURY has decided that owning a gun capable of firing flares 500ft into the air does not require a firearms licence.

http://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/n...are-gun-does-not-need-licence-court-1-3143288

That's interesting because a Very pistol is a firearm, as is the flare gun the OP was looking at. Is the barrel on a Very longer than the cartridge?

 

[alahol2]

That's interesting because a Very pistol is a firearm, as is the flare gun the OP was looking at. Is the barrel on a Very longer than the cartridge?

The barrel on my Very pistol is definitely longer than the cartridge. Obtaining the firearms certificate was not difficult, about the same as getting a passport for the first time. The local police firearms officer is likely to visit your home to ensure you have adequate storage, in my case a lockable metal box in the loft bolted to the rafters. They did not visit the boat to check storage which again should be lockable.
Problem now would be obtaining new flare cartridges, mine are probably 20 years old but they don't have a 'use by' date and look as good as new.

 

[David2452]

This may be of interest!
A JURY has decided that owning a gun capable of firing flares 500ft into the air does not require a firearms licence.

http://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/n...are-gun-does-not-need-licence-court-1-3143288

I am pretty sure that the shell protrudes from the end of the barrel in the Orion launcher mentioned in the Jury's decision and that was seemingly the basis for the acquittal, the Nico shells are totally enclosed in the chambers, not to mention it's a multi shot device, in fact a little of the chamber is left so a decision on that may well go the other way, as I said earlier, it's all about the chamber. If you want one just get a ticket, it's not difficult and better still is free.

 

[Spi D]

Legally advice:

To carry a NICOSIGNAL`S needs a official permission ("small firearms licence" under § 10 (4) sentence 4 i.V.m. Anl. 2 part. 2 under part 3 Nr. 2 and 2.1 WaffG.)"A permit for carrying needs not who performs a signal gun in mountaineering, as a responsible leader of a watercraft on this vehicle or emergency and rescue exercises. Continue to be excluded from the authorization requirement is, who performs a signal gun for dispensing start or end characters at sports events when optical or acoustic signaling is required."

Apparently approved by SOLAS, USCG and MED according to pg. 25 of this:
http://www.stsg-tuebingen.de/download/pyropaket.pdf

 

[langstonelayabout]

It's a long story but I've discussed this with the head of firearms licencing for Hampshire police force. Here's my take on what he said...

Its really not a problem. In the UK, things like 'launchers' (in my conversation it was all about a 'Verey' signal pistol) need to be delivered by the supplier to your 'ship' or to your aircraft within an 'aerodrome'. Leave them on board and this 'weapon' is exempt from normal civilian regulations. Don't even think about taking them off your boat or outside the confines of the aerodrome. When they expire, you'll need to dispose of them abroad or have them collected by a licenced company.

You don't need a licence to keep it on board your 'ship' (or boat or aircraft) nor to use it in an emergency. The company that delivers it to you must deliver it straight on board your ship/boat or to your aerodrome. (You cannot collect it from them unless you have a licence for a Section 13 weapon: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/13 )