Genoa tracks

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Foxy

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Replacing about 4 or 5 metres of 32mm or 1"1/4 track.
Any views as to preference? Want heavy duty cruiser. Used to be schaefer but Barton, Lewmar etc... What do you think?

Patrick
 
Foxy said:
Replacing about 4 or 5 metres of 32mm or 1"1/4 track.
Any views as to preference? Want heavy duty cruiser. Used to be schaefer but Barton, Lewmar etc... What do you think?

Patrick
Click to expand...

I think Barton products are very good value for money, and they offer good and prompt technical advice. However, they mostly sell through third party distributors which makes sourcing their products laborious and slow, and usually their distributors don't offer such good technical advice. Last year one of their distributors mis-sold me an inappropriate product, after a very long wait for delivery it arrived still with the Barton package labelling, so the distributor had obviously indirectly sourced it from Barton rather than holding it in stock. I was by then fairly exasperated by the distributor so I contacted Barton directly - who immediately replaced the inappropriate items at their own cost. So my opinion is that Barton are a good company who sell good products with good technical back up - who should sell their products directly by mail order themselves.
 
Be aware of differences in specification. Hole spacing Barton, Pfeiffer 100mm, Schaefer 102mm. Top section thickness Barton, Schaefer 5mm, Pfeiffer, Rutgerson 6mm....etc
 
Foxy said:
Replacing about 4 or 5 metres of 32mm or 1"1/4 track.
Any views as to preference? Want heavy duty cruiser. Used to be schaefer but Barton, Lewmar etc... What do you think?

Patrick
Click to expand...

Can you replace with same again so that the screw holes match ?
 
Also consider NOT having new tracks. (and that coming from a racer)

Be honest how often do you adjust them more than two or three different positions.
I was looking at mine the other day and realised that I have three reefing positions on the furling headsail and apart from those three positions the rest of the track was pretty much unused.
So I'm considering using a barber haul system and doing away with my 2x8' tracks for the genoa.
Another option instead of the barber haul system is to have two snatch blocks on each side plus a main fair-lead block.

Just a thought......
 
Javelin said:
Also consider NOT having new tracks. (and that coming from a racer)

Be honest how often do you adjust them more than two or three different positions.
I was looking at mine the other day and realised that I have three reefing positions on the furling headsail and apart from those three positions the rest of the track was pretty much unused.
So I'm considering using a barber haul system and doing away with my 2x8' tracks for the genoa.
Another option instead of the barber haul system is to have two snatch blocks on each side plus a main fair-lead block.

Just a thought......
Click to expand...
Plus 1 for a barber hauler system. The big 100ft ocean racers I have seen use a pulley on the deck well forward and a line through this pulley back to a cleat and up to a ring or pulley that the actual sheet passes through. So raising or lowering the sheet pulley has the same effect as sliding a pulley along on a car. Just for more variation however they had a sideways track so that you cna adjust sheeting angle ie closer to centre line or toward the gunwhale. Anyway the barber hauler would be excellent with a roller reefing jib as you can move the sheeting point down to suit small jib area from the cockpit. Or again pull it down for reaching to get the sheet down anfd get the top part of the jib working. ie not falling away.
So no while I retain my usual jib car track I would not replace it if it wore out. good luck olewill
 
Are there any actual advantages to barber haulers vs tracks though ? I suppose the ease of fitting in and out haulers is one but you can add these to a tracked system too, I suppose ?

Boo2
 
I've never had much success on my boat or anyone else's with towed genoa cars, they always jam when you really don't have a hand free to leave the cockpit to kick them. The idea of using barber haulers to effectively move the line of sheet's pull forward can easily be achieved by putting a block at the front end of the track - though the cost of clutches, blocks and snatch blocks to run on the sheets may easily equal the cost of new tracks and cars. If performance were the only criteria for your choice and the deck/coachroof layout allows then putting the block on a thwartships track to allow you to also tighten the sheeting angle would be ideal. You don't need to remove the now redundant track, just leave the car as far aft as it will go - the rest of the track could be used to attach central cleats and maybe extra cars for the spinnaker guy, though the new barber hauler can fulfil that function with the snatch block on the spinnaker sheet. Like the man says, "The world's your lobster!"

Rob (still saving for the snatch blocks)
 
Very interested in the barber hauler idea for all the reasons stated above - and keen to look at how I wight achieve that (so any examples would be much appreciated)
I do have one slight issue that worries me a little. mY genoa tracks are screwed into a pair of sheer planks that run along the top of the hull. I say screwed as they are not thru bolted. Over the years some of these screws have corroded, so Ive removed the tracks, dug out the rotten wood, filled with epoxy and put some mat over the top. My intention was to move the tracks along by half a screw hole and start again but the tracks are basically an old schaeffer model with a flat top and a seperate plastic U shape to make turn them into a T shape (it sits under the track). This doesnt look as though it will seal well and so I think Id like to replace it with new tracks. Not putting tracks on would save a huge amount of hassle - but im a bit concerned that those screws also add extra beef to the hull to deck joint. (see diagram). I think the deck is attached with copper nails and I guess I could add some countersunk screws even if I dont put the track on (and glass them over) so i guess ive answered my own question. That leaves me with the question as to whether I could find a strong enough attachment poitn for a barber hauler. If it was inside of the stantions, it could be a thru deck with backing plate....
Any thougts? (and more info on the hauler system,)
Thanks everso
image.jpg
Pat
 
Your main fairlead block will be essentially in the same place as it is now.
To make life easier you could bring it inboard a couple of inches so you can put a decent backing plate behind it and bolt through.

Location of the barber haul turn block is going to be variable depending on your partly furled genoa clew height and your general deck layout.
Locating it via forum posts is almost impossible as it really needs you to be sailing.

The trick here is to try it now before you change anything.
Just tie a rope round the sheet with a bowline and then manually pull down to get the right leech/foot tension and see if there's any existing handy hard points to run off.
In my case the cap shroud chain plate is just about right for me which incidentally is also where I run my boom preventer from.
 
Thanks to all for all the v useful info.
I really like the idea of the hauler - and might still head down that route, I think I will probably need to replace some part of the tracks as the fairlead at least will have to be screwed into the deck rather than through bolted so will need the support of a number of screws to ensure it doesnt pop out! I suppose I could have a much shorter track for the fairlead and then take the barber haul turn block inside of the bulwark/toe rail.
Out of interest, do you find the hauler on the lazy sheet bangs against the hull?
Thanks again
Pat
 
Three tricks here to stop a flailing block causing issues.
1, Stick 5mm neoprene (wet suit material) to either side of the block.
2, Use an elastic take up so when not under load it gets pulled down to the deck.
3, Use a low friction thimble rather than a block.
images


Edit: thinking about a solution I came up with on another boat where we defined three reef points for the genoa and we just fixed a deck eye and moved the lead block with a snapshackle to the relevant eye.
 
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I would not recommend Barton track & blocks for the genoa track
Where the block car fits over the track Barton use a plastic insert. This causes it to jam as the insert can move slightly so it is difficult to move the car along the track. I had these new on my second Stella & they were rubbish. That being said, all the other Barton stuff I have bought has been OK
 
Apologies for going throught this again but im getting down to the detail now.....So, my issue is that i only have one option for the fairlead posiion and it has to be screwed in (rather than bolted) right next to the edge of the deck on the photo below (the white bits are filled old screw holes from the old track) and would no doubt need a short track for the fairlead to sit on in order to spead the load.
I could also fit a track further along for the hauler block or I could fit it inboard slightly and bolt through but I do have a toe rail in the way ( see other photo) and would a non vertical pull work ok?
If I stick with tracks, i need to bend em to follow the curve, but expect i could manage that with a bit of judicial winch power.....
I guess my best option from everything above is probably Lewmar tracks, with a single fairlead block at the aft end and an attachment point further forward for a hauler block, the numerous screws in the tracks offering the load bearing support that i would have if i were able to through bolt on the edge of the deck.

image.jpgimage.jpg
 
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The hauler block is only taking deflection load and not the load of the sheet.
So loading is probably around 25% or less than the sheet load and of course you only need it when reefing the jib as well.
Google Barber hauler systems and look at images.
Ok most here are using it for reaching to reduce jib twist but the system is still the same.

The haul does not need to be vertical although it would be best however a few inches forward of this would work.
Again the best way to locate it would be in practice, I think you would be lucky to get it anywhere near right without actually having the jib up and filled.
 
I don't think it necessary for the OP to actually put up a jib. The aft fairlead loaction will be the one used for biggest jib or full unfurled jib. He should roughly remember where that was and if in doubt go further aft along the old track.
The barber hauler deck block needs to be far enough forward to cater for the smallest jib or jib in the most furled position and still useful as a jib. If in doubt or to suit attachment slightly further forward is better. Allow for the height of the of the deck block and the block on the end of the barber hauler.
The barber hauler can also usefully be further inboard than the aft fairlead to go a tighter sheeting angle on smaller jib. good for beating not so good for reaching.
Use backing plates or some sort of reinforcement under the fairlead and also the barber hauler. I would make the barber hauler as strong as fairlead despite previous comment. If you are in a gale with minimum jib area then the barber hauler will be pulled right down and so in effect equal to a fairlead. good luck olewill
 
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