Genoa Reefing Line Control

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cpedw

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Just occasionally, reefing (too late) the Genoa is an ordeal, the reefing line defeats the reefer and instead of a couple of extra turns of sail round the forestay, the sail is all out.

Would one of these or something similar (and cheaper?) help to alleviate the problem? The boat is a conventional sloop, 35ft LOA and the sail is 31m^2.

Derek

edit: The existing arrangement is just a plain cleat to hold the line.
 
I use a cheek block with a jammer fitted to it: the block is positioned on the cockpit coating behind the winch, so I can use the winch if required to reef the genoa. The jammer is then closed before releasing the tension on the furling line. I also have a cleat fitted, as the genoa once worked loose at anchor in a blow when the jammer slipped. You could use something like this Barton Foot Block c/w Cam Cleat/Jammer - 50mm dia. sheave Barton Foot Block c/w Cam Cleat/Jammer - 50mm dia. sheave: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors , although the one I have fitted is plastic and has a longer handle on the jammer mechanism.
The downside of using the ratchet block you mention is that it’s designed to be fitted to a stanchion, and you’d be putting quite a load on it holding the strain of a reefed genoa in a blow.
 
You could introduce some friction by surging the line round a winch or a large clear.

Or you can, if there is room, alter course so that the sail has less wind in it.
 
Ratchet block helps quite a bit.
To get a significant effect from it, it has to turn the rope through a big angle, so the 'stanchion mount' might more likely go on the pushpit than an actual stanchion. Ours is shackled to the toe rail. When sailing along, the reefing line is secured by a jammer (clutch) forwards of the cockpit, so there is no load onthe ratchet block.
The main gain of the ratchet block is controlled easing when unfurling, and keeping tension on the line so it winds on the drum tidily avoiding the risk of riding turns.
 
duncan99210 said:
I use a cheek block with a jammer fitted to it: the block is positioned on the cockpit coating behind the winch, so I can use the winch if required to reef the genoa. The jammer is then closed before releasing the tension on the furling line. I also have a cleat fitted, as the genoa once worked loose at anchor in a blow when the jammer slipped. You could use something like this Barton Foot Block c/w Cam Cleat/Jammer - 50mm dia. sheave Barton Foot Block c/w Cam Cleat/Jammer - 50mm dia. sheave: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors , although the one I have fitted is plastic and has a longer handle on the jammer mechanism.
The downside of using the ratchet block you mention is that it’s designed to be fitted to a stanchion, and you’d be putting quite a load on it holding the strain of a reefed genoa in a blow.
Click to expand...
It's always best to have an extra few turns of line on the furling spool so that you can wind the sheets around the furled sail two or three times, then back this up with a sail tie before you leave/ go to sleep.
 
duncan99210 said:
I use a cheek block with a jammer fitted to it: the block is positioned on the cockpit coating behind the winch, so I can use the winch if required to reef the genoa. The jammer is then closed before releasing the tension on the furling line. I also have a cleat fitted, as the genoa once worked loose at anchor in a blow when the jammer slipped. You could use something like this Barton Foot Block c/w Cam Cleat/Jammer - 50mm dia. sheave Barton Foot Block c/w Cam Cleat/Jammer - 50mm dia. sheave: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors , although the one I have fitted is plastic and has a longer handle on the jammer mechanism.
The downside of using the ratchet block you mention is that it’s designed to be fitted to a stanchion, and you’d be putting quite a load on it holding the strain of a reefed genoa in a blow.
Click to expand...
It's not considered advisable to ever winch the furling line. If it is too heavy to pull using one turning block, then there must be some unwanted friction in the system, caused by failed bearings, either in the drum or the bushings in the foil itself. Winching to overcome the friction of failed bushings in the foil can result in damage to the forestay.
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
It's always best to have an extra few turns of line on the furling spool so that you can wind the sheets around the furled sail two or three times, then back this up with a sail tie before you leave/ go to sleep.
Click to expand...
Indeed, the sail was set up like that but the problem was that somehow or other the jammer had been knocked so that it didn’t hold the sail tightly furled. From then on (the incident took place 10 years ago..) we fitted the cleat as belt and braces and when any sort of blow is likely we also tie a gasket round the sail.
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
It's not considered advisable to ever winch the furling line. If it is too heavy to pull using one turning block, then there must be some unwanted friction in the system, caused by failed bearings, either in the drum or the bushings in the foil itself. Winching to overcome the friction of failed bushings in the foil can result in damage to the forestay.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard this advice so many times but frankly, winching in is often the only option available.
I know my furling gear is in good fettle, that the friction in the blocks guiding the line to the cockpit is at a minimum and that the line is in good condition. So the likelihood of those elements being the root cause of my arms being unable to overcome the resistance to furling is small. Of course you need to exercise care using the winch: there’s no point in winching away when the furler isn’t turning: something is obviously jamming and you need to sort it out before trying to continue furling.
Using a winch means that you’re in control of the furling, it minimises the chances of you dropping the furling line and thus the sail escaping to unfurl with a bang and allows you to release the sail under control if that’s needed. Simple rules are all very well, but when I did my DS all those many years ago, our instructor had a small winch dedicated to furling the foresail...... When quizzed about he said much as I have above. Take care with it, don’t bother to use it when you don’t need to but don’t be afraid to use a winch when it makes life simpler and safer.
 
On larger boats you have to winch the furling line as the sail area is so much greater. We use the spinnaker winches to reef the genoa and furling jib routinely. It gives so much more control when reefing in boisterous conditions and saves the risk of injury to hands. I have had nasty rope burns when dealing with reefing lines in the past. You do need to be alert to problems with wraps, etc although any additional tension on the winch is usually quite obvious. Just make sure you stop winching if it doesnt feel right?
 
Another variation on the theme already mentioned: Block with becket and cleat on the stern rail. One advantage here is that you can pull in the line and then lock it in the cleat just by slightly altering the direction of the line. (The lower similar set up is for the genoa track car):
furl%20adjust.jpg
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
It's not considered advisable to ever winch the furling line. If it is too heavy to pull using one turning block, then there must be some unwanted friction in the system, caused by failed bearings, either in the drum or the bushings in the foil itself. Winching to overcome the friction of failed bushings in the foil can result in damage to the forestay.
Click to expand...
Yes but, there are boats and situations such as big genoas , tall racing rigs and in strong winds you need a winch to furl the foresail.
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
It's always best to have an extra few turns of line on the furling spool so that you can wind the sheets around the furled sail two or three times, then back this up with a sail tie before you leave/ go to sleep.
Click to expand...
This should be kept to a reasonable minimum. Every extra turn on the drum is a potential riding turn. Too much string on the drum can be a nightmare. I learned that the messy way!
 
When I find it to hard to furl my Genoa by hand I use my electric sheet winch with just two turns around the winch so any excessive resistance the line slips on the winch I tail it by hand, I also like my sheets to wrap round the furled Genoa three times. My furling line comes to the cockpit through a jammer so is easily locked to allow me to reef by hand most of the time. Mike
 
I think that I have used a winch on the furling line once I about twenty years, when needing to furl the sail in restricted waters in more wind than I would have wished. On every other occasion the wind was light or I could shield the jib behind the main and furl it. The furling gear is too fragile and expensive for me to want to risk adding more power than the gear could handle. It is just a matter of applying foresight, especially when approaching harbour.
 
Extra turns on the drum to allow for a tighter than normal furl works for me.
I furl my Genoa using a small 2nd hand Gibb winch because it just makes life easier!
I like the idea of using a cam cleat on my turning block, I will give it some thought.
 
I fitted a Lewmar clutch to my genoa furling line - so much easier than trying to get it onto a cleat. Works perfectly. Also used on my previous boat which had a Sailspar continuous reefing line so fitted a Rutgerson clutch which you could dismantle in situ and put the line in - I believe Spinlock make a similar clutch.
 
Some of these replies are reassuring, as I've winched my genoa's furling line a couple of times recently and always feel guilty about it (since a more experienced skipper once told me it should never be done).

Mine is a 40' boat and the genoa can be furled reasonably easily by hand when there's no wind, but it's impossible in a hard blow (I need to practice using the inner jib).

I've owned the boat 18 months and have not disassembled the furling gear. I'm guessing I should do?
 
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