john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Each to their own. Still not as easy as lighting the gas.
I also enjoy baking bread in the gas oven.
But we spend long periods on board sometimes...
Gas or spirit?
- Thread starter marie galante
- Start date
Each to their own. Still not as easy as lighting the gas.
I also enjoy baking bread in the gas oven.
But we spend long periods on board sometimes...
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear that John.
who supervised the changing of the gas bottle that leaked
pmagowan
Well-Known Member
I think the word 'probably' shows that you are not very good with probability either in your analysis of risk or function. If you compare an ideal spirit stove with an ideal gas stove installation I am afraid spirit loses hands down. Gas, turn a knob, instant high heat. Spirit stove, preheat, wait, eventually light, eventually get a weak heat source not to mention running out of fuel all the time and having to wait ages to refill and relight. Spilling spirits all over the place. Trying to light without burning yourself.
So the options are once again to go spirit and boil water slowly and with a lot of fuss or go gas and have a fry up and pot of tea while the boat next door tries to mop up all their spilt meths.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
FWB
N/A
Well I have a Taylors paraffin stove, I can't remember the fuel tank capacity but it's about 6 litres. I spend more time on the boat than I do at home and the boat is used year round. I probably refill the tank twice a year. Pouring 15ml of meths into the burner is simple, I've yet to spill any.
The flame is very hot, there's nothing slow about it at all.
pmagowan
Well-Known Member
Do you cook anything?
My grandmother had to change from gas to spirit because of this 'safety' fear and she complains bitterly. I have tried it but it is not worth the effort. I like my grub and we eat as well or better on the boat as we do at home. Gas is really the only thing for instant controllable heat. The test is either stir fry or steak not slowly boiling a kettle.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Lost in the mists of time.
It was noted that the caps that are fitted to the gas bottles when they are full EXACTLY fitted in the drain from the gas bottle locker. I can't remember if one was actually found in the drain, but its another possibility. Like all these accidents, it was a catalogue of errors and coincidences.
There are rigorously enforced routines for changing gas bottles on those boats now. From memory the skipper/mate checks the job.
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Is the pre heat done with a Camping Gaz blow torch
Reminds me when I were lad, the only time you got a fire in your bedroom was when you
were close to death with flu, whooping cough or whatever..........
Never quite got the logic with my lovely mum lighting the coal fire with a gas poker.
p.s. For youngsters ( if interested) , the gas poker was supplied from a gas tap ( via the mains gasometer , think Oval, next to the fire grate . A gas fire would have been nice. On reflection ,
gas was metered and you had to find a shilling or sixpence . Perhaps there was a worry about the
gas running out, leaving the gas fire on etc.
I have an Origo by default but had gas happily for years on other boats and marvel at all the safety features compared with the above.
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prv
Well-Known Member
I think you're mixing up spirit and pressurised-paraffin stoves. I believe paraffin is actually slightly hotter than gas. The trade off is the faff of getting them lit. Personally I like gas, but I would at least give paraffin a try if, say, I bought a boat fitted with a nice Taylor's. Spirit I think I would be looking to replace quite quickly.
Pete
VicS
Well-Known Member
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
That's the one.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Paraffin is, in my experience, more powerful than gas. Favoured by long term livaboards due to the energy density (you could feasibly carry several years supply aboard) and no compatibility issues. A friend of mine even used jet fuel in his Taylors and found it worked very well. I also found it smellier than gas, and if you get a flare up there is soot deposited on the ceiling etc.
I would have paraffin again but at the moment am simply finding gas more convenient. Lighting up takes two seconds instead of two minutes.
I would have paraffin again but at the moment am simply finding gas more convenient. Lighting up takes two seconds instead of two minutes.
SiteSurfer
Well-Known Member
The only experience I have of siprit stoves is my Origo apart from scout trangias and I don't see where the fuss is that some of you seem to think is involved.
I just poke my lighter on to the burner, open the knob and it lights. Pop the kettle on and that's it, I can happily nuke stuff in a frying pan and if feeling adventurous combine the ingredients of a pasta dish with the heat turned down because it's too effective if anything.
I might miss the oven for keeping chips hot but that's about it, then again I didn't buy a boat for its cooking potential.
I just poke my lighter on to the burner, open the knob and it lights. Pop the kettle on and that's it, I can happily nuke stuff in a frying pan and if feeling adventurous combine the ingredients of a pasta dish with the heat turned down because it's too effective if anything.
I might miss the oven for keeping chips hot but that's about it, then again I didn't buy a boat for its cooking potential.
marie galante
N/A
It seems that the owner/skipper can be VERY careful and cautious, but what about all the others who come on board? Are they as nit-picking about all the checks, or do they introduce the probability of 'dribbles' of gas-flow down into the bilges? Does one check the rubber hose for signs of chafe EVERY day? What about the flexible connection? Is it checked on a daily basis for signs of cracks and splits?
The 'catalogue of errors and coincidences' occurred, according to the official report ( https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/547c717be5274a429000013b/lord_trenchard.pdf ), due to the cumulative effects of errors and omissions of several people. Despite all the systems that had been built-in to prevent a recognised hazard, that hazard occurred and an explosion ensued. The systems did not Fail Safe.
They Failed Unsafe....
An impromptu briefing at a London YC , given by one who was probably the first professional skipper of the 'Lord Trenchard', emphasized that the boat had every gas safety procedure and device available, and still that wasn't enough. The same deeply-experienced Examiner mused about the deep bilges found in many boats 'of a certain age' and how it would be practically impossible to be sure one had rid such bilge-spaces of accumulated gas. Certainly, conventional bilge pumps, designed for water, wouldn't do it.
Do people convince themselves that the installation they happen to have is 'all right'? Do they do 'Post-Purchase Rationalisation' - searching for arguments to support a predetermined conclusion?
VicS
Well-Known Member
There is not a vast difference between the calorific values of propane, butane and kerosene on a weight basis. Gross CVs are 46.4, 45.7, and 43.0MJ/Kg respectively but its easier to carry and store the kero than it is to carry and store lpg since it does not need heavy bulky cylinders
prv
Well-Known Member
The fuss is with paraffin, the third option, rather than spirit. These are like the 1920s Primus stoves, or my grandad's traditional brass blowtorch, and you have to pre-heat the burner by pouring meths into a little cup around it, lighting that and letting it burn for a couple of minutes, pumping up pressure in the paraffin tank with a hand pump, then opening the valve at the right moment so that the paraffin comes out vaporised (rather than in a liquid spray across the cabin) and catches light off the last of the meths. I'm sure you get used to it, but it's a hell of a lot easier to just turn a tap and click a lighter
Pete
FWB
N/A
The fuss is with paraffin, the third option, rather than spirit. These are like the 1920s Primus stoves, or my grandad's traditional brass blowtorch, and you have to pre-heat the burner by pouring meths into a little cup around it, lighting that and letting it burn for a couple of minutes, pumping up pressure in the paraffin tank with a hand pump, then opening the valve at the right moment so that the paraffin comes out vaporised (rather than in a liquid spray across the cabin) and catches light off the last of the meths. I'm sure you get used to it, but it's a hell of a lot easier to just turn a tap and click a lighter
Pete
That is not how you use a Taylors.
1. Put 15ml of meths in the preheat cup and light it.
2. Put the kettle on the stove.
3. Wait four minutes for the meths to burn out.
4. Light the burner just as if it were gas.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
So you need two fuels instead of just one with gas, and you have to watch it, and remember to light it after four minutes. The water in my kettle on the gas would be boiling by then.
FWB
N/A
So you need two fuels instead of just one with gas, and you have to watch it, and remember to light it after four minutes. The water in my kettle on the gas would be boiling by then.
The water in my kettle would be close to boiling too from the meths flame and I wouldn't have an explosive substance in my bilge.
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NormanS
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't have an explosive substance in my bilge either. Why would you choose to do that?