Gas Oil (Diesel) FAME (Biodiesel) Free At Largs Marina

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Gas Oil (Diesel) Will Be Supplied FAME (Biodiesel) Free At Largs Marina

Largs Marina will not be selling bio diesel as of the 1st of January because it is susceptible to biological growth I obtained this information from a leaflet issued by Largs Marina. They state that all non road use diesel must have less than 10 mg of sulphur per kilogram of fuel but they dont state what they are using or if their gas oil complies.


The penny dropped today (12/01/11) about the title!
 
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Old Boots will be along in a minute but can someone confirm or deny that Bio-diesel can cause problems with "rubber" seals in older engines. If it does then that will probably be the basis of the decision at Largs
 
FAME = Fatty Acid Methyl Ester better known as "biofuel" I believe. Someone will probably tell us where to find a recipe for making biofuels.

The leaflet states that "FAME/biodiesel is susceptible to biolocical growth and can cause fouling and blocking of fuel filters."

Which seems to me to be a pretty good reason for not using it.
 
There seems to be some confusion here. If it is FAME free, it isnt bio-diesel by definition.

The EU directive for non-road diesel does NOT apply to vessels operating in CatC or Cat D waters. If Largs is in Cat C or D, and all the boats want to continue using gasoil (at a reasonable price) the marina should keep selling gasoil IMO.

If Largs is in CatB waters, they should sell low sulphur fuel. Most of the producers are claiming they will deliver this with nor more than 2% FAME for marine use. This FAME is not added, but the producers and suppliers cannot guarantee that is 0%, until they have changed their processes which is expected to be later in the year. This information came to me first hand and can be verified by the BMF and the FPS (Federation of Petroleum Suppliers).


The BMF explain it quite well here http://www.londonboatshow.com/pdf/Fuel update 6Dec.pdf
I dont know my Scottish geography so you will need to find Largs yourself here. http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/msn1776.pdf
 
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Wight Dawn said:
FAME = Fatty Acid Methyl Ester better known as "biofuel" I believe. Someone will probably tell us where to find a recipe for making biofuels.

The leaflet states that "FAME/biodiesel is susceptible to biolocical growth and can cause fouling and blocking of fuel filters."

Which seems to me to be a pretty good reason for not using it.
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a very good reason for not using it indeed, even though the EU wants us to. This is why the marina and fuel industries have got together to produce an alternative, as described in my previous reply.
 
Thanks Again Quandary

Quandary said:
I think I know what FAME free diesel is, but not why Largs will not sell it. Or are there perhaps too many negatives?
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I see what you mean, its all wrong. Written in a rush as tea was being served.

Largs Marina will not be selling bio diesel as of the 1st of January because it is susceptible to biological growth; the diesel, not Largs Marina, although it does suffer from a high biological growth rate, if you believe what some pilot books say.

The Offending Sentence
I understand that Largs Marina have committed to supplying FAME free gas oil as of the 1st of January this year and will not sell it because of its biological growth susceptibility.
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BlowingOldBoots said:
I see what you mean, its all wrong. Written in a rush as tea was being served.

Largs Marina will not be selling bio diesel as of the 1st of January because it is susceptible to biological growth; the diesel, not Largs Marina, although it does suffer from a high biological growth rate, if you believe what some pilot books say.
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Ah that makes more sense - putting Largs in line with the majority of all other marinas.
 
#1 Today, 16:58
BlowingOldBoots

Gas Oil (Diesel) FAME (Biodiesel) Free At Largs Marina
I like the sound of that.:D
 
NormanS said:
#1 Today, 16:58
BlowingOldBoots

Gas Oil (Diesel) FAME (Biodiesel) Free At Largs Marina
I like the sound of that.:D
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This is how fights in pubs start, Quandary gets the first dig in, you just rub salt in the wound and I get frustrated at not being able to express myself wittily succinctly. I hear mother's voice chastising me and it all ends in a mess. ;)

Anyway, not selling does not mean giving away for free, just not selling. Sell: give or hand over (something) in exchange for money.
 
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I noticed when I was filling up at Morrisons that their diesel contains up to 7% bio diesel. Does this mean it would be a bad idea using that diesel in my Yanmar. Occasionally I fill a couple of 5 litre cans there as it's more convenient than getting it at the marina berth.
 
new legislation

the directive changed end of November. It was driven by reducing the amount of sulphur in gas oil which is pretty much Diesel without the additives depending on time of year, blend etc. but currently they don't put FAME in GAS Oil.

Gasoil ( or red diesel) used to have up to 1000ppm Sulphur content whereas road Diesel (DERV) has <10PPM hence Ultra low Sulphur Diesel (ULSP).

Gasoil is used by all sorts from heating oil suppliers to off road machinery, marine etc. The legislation was changed so that moving machinery and plant like tractors and diggers etc should use low sulphur gasoil. This has created problems in the refineries etc. as there are only so many tanks and having to hold three grades of diesel related products is hard so all Gas Oil is now going out the door at 10PPM.

It doesn't have FAME in it either. I suspect Largs are getting the red stuff at 10ppm without FAME in it and now making a fuss over it. That will be what they are selling as marine diesel.

You only get FAME in the Road stuff as you don't get subsidy putting it in Gasoil or red diesel. Fame is too expensive in the current marketplace to put it in fuel if you don't get subsidy in it.

Working on a Gas Oil marker Dye project related to above at a refinery near Stirling - hence the knowledge!
 
EuanMcKenzie said:
. I suspect Largs are getting the red stuff at 10ppm without FAME in it and now making a fuss over it. That will be what they are selling as marine diesel.
.....

Working on a Gas Oil marker Dye project related to above at a refinery near Stirling - hence the knowledge!
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Always good to have more inside knowledge Euan. Down here on the south coast we most definitely not able to buy 10ppm with 0% FAME yet, only <2%.

However, we are not even buying that as old fashioned red gasoil is still being delivered, particularly as we are not an inland waterway.
 
SHUG said:
Old Boots will be along in a minute but can someone confirm or deny that Bio-diesel can cause problems with "rubber" seals in older engines. If it does then that will probably be the basis of the decision at Largs
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Not sure I can offer the full explanation, but here's some anecdotal evidence... literally round the corner from where I'm working is TopGear "secret development lab" i.e. a non-descript brick lockup. There's a TopGear classic program where they grew their own bio-diesel for a 24 hour race, put it in a BMW 3.0 litre diesel engine, which worked fine for an hour or two, before the bio-diesel dissolved crucial seals in the engine. Then the fuel was spraying all over the place. Bio-diesel is also a much better solvent than mineral diesel, and will happily loosen all sorts of gunk that may be lurking in the fuel system.

Expert opinions? Places like this ....http://www.tb-training.co.uk/bio.htm
 
OK, Boots, we will meet you round the back of the forum, bring yer mate.

Serious question?
At lay up in October I topped up the boat fuel tank with about 20 litres of white from the filling station, (20-25%) rather than drive to the nearest dockside pump. Presuming that this can give rise to problems over a long (6 month) and very cold winter is there any remedial action worth taking after relaunch or is it just not worth worrying about? Would I have been better risking condensation instead?
 
Reading the stuff on this forum and the fact that you have a near new boat, which I assume you maintain to a high standard (derived from your posts), I doubt there will be a problem. Much better to avoid the condensation.

I was really just pointing out what Largs are supplying for the benefit of those who fill up around the upper Firth Of Clyde. EuanMcKenzie's comments below lead me to think that Largs are trying to induce boaters to their fuel pontoon.

The flyer actually has a paragraph warning boaters to be careful about where they fill up as you never know what you are getting, unlike at Largs. Probably a mix of marketing and addressing customers concerns.

I suspect that using a diesel treatment additive, fuel filter and oil changes in line with recommendations and occasional drawing off any water from the bottom of the tank will address most risks we are likely to see. At least that is how I interpret tb-training information from the link in Boreades post. I am not worrying about it.
 
Quote "I was really just pointing out what Largs are supplying for the benefit of those who fill up around the upper Firth Of Clyde. EuanMcKenzie's comments below lead me to think that Largs are trying to induce boaters to their fuel pontoon."

Largs wouldn't do that would they;-)
 
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