Gas Hoses

[sighmoon]

Surveyor, on a boat I'm about to buy, says the gas hoses are 5 years old, and so need replacing. Is this a DIY job or is it one for a gas fitter? In my minds eye, I buy a length of hose, cut a bit to length, and then plug in place of the old one, like plugging in a bunsen burner at school, and then tighten a jubilee clip? Or is there more to it?

Gas is one of my big fears on board, so I don't want to bodge it, but at the same time, it sounds like a very simple job.

 

[fireball]

On our last boat (Jenneau) it was the simple Jubilee clips .. so yes - we could (and did) just buy a length of gas hose and replace!
The new one (Bavaria) has got some sort of fitting on the cooker end - so will have to investigate a bit to replace that one ...

 

[Pete7]

Don't forget there will be another at the back of the cooker so it can swing, which reminds me, must do ours.

You might want to replace the regulator if you don't know the age, not expensive.

Pete

 

[sailorman]

Surveyor, on a boat I'm about to buy, says the gas hoses are 5 years old, and so need replacing. Is this a DIY job or is it one for a gas fitter? In my minds eye, I buy a length of hose, cut a bit to length, and then plug in place of the old one, like plugging in a bunsen burner at school, and then tighten a jubilee clip? Or is there more to it?

Gas is one of my big fears on board, so I don't want to bodge it, but at the same time, it sounds like a very simple job.

how does he know???.
the dated hose is the manufacturing date. NOT expiry date.
hoses do not have an expiry date to my humble knowledge.
Vics will be along soon

useful reading
http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap7.pdf

 

[alan]

Southampton Calor Gas have hoses of various lengths, including the "orange" type with crimped on connectors as supplied by Beneteau, Jeanneau and others (this type are not so easy to find).

As well as the date on the hose, mine have a tag attached to each hose telling you when they expire.

Mine are like new and I am only replacing them to keep the insurance happy in case of an incident!!!

Alan.

 

[Cloven]

Don't forget there will be another at the back of the cooker so it can swing, which reminds me, must do ours.

Pete

This hose should be an armoured flexible hose and should be connected to the back of the cooker at one end and the rest of the system at the other by compression fittings using olives much like domestic copper water pipes. Depending on the age & origin of the boat, this will most likely be either 1/4" or 6mm but you must find out as the two are not compatible. Once replaced, the joins should be checked that they are gas tight.

As others have said, Southampton Calor Gas are a good source.

 

[bluemerlin]

Gas inspection:- replace hoses with copper pipe

My insurers have insisted on a formal inspection on my new (1951) sloop (37ft).
This was done by the gas safety chap from Mistral Yachts - a recognised East Coast company. I took the precaution of replacing all the old hose with 2010 hose.
The boat failed the inspection. All rubber hose (except for the short bit attaching the bottle) has to be replaced with copper or steel gas pipe, with test access points, clipped every 50cm. The estimate was £400!!!!!! Fortunately, as the boat is for private use only then I can do the necessary replacement myself. Am currently awaiting a re-test.
Similar experiences anyone?

 

[sailorman]

This hose should be an armoured flexible hose and should be connected to the back of the cooker at one end and the rest of the system at the other by compression fittings using olives much like domestic copper water pipes. Depending on the age & origin of the boat, this will most likely be either 1/4" or 6mm but you must find out as the two are not compatible. Once replaced, the joins should be checked that they are gas tight.

As others have said, Southampton Calor Gas are a good source.

I was told by our local gas installer that There is no requirement for armoured hoses to a cooker

 

[Old Troll]

Old Troll

Could someone please inform me why the solid copper pipe gas system is recommended with the joints and all. For many years I had the length of rubber gas pipe secured at each end to gas bottle and cooker. This gas pipe ran inside a reinforced larger diameter pipe which was securely fastened and gave good protection. There was no joints and no problems in 50 years with this set up. The gas pipe was inspected annually and renewed every 5 years as a precaution. I have now fitted this what is to me inferior system of solid pipes with ovals and joins etc to keep my insurance happy. Is the soild gas pipes system indeed superior and safer or am I just being an Old Troll. One of the joys of the Forum is to put your hat on a stick and put above the parapet to count the holes in it.

 

[VicS]

Surveyor, on a boat I'm about to buy, says the gas hoses are 5 years old, and so need replacing. Is this a DIY job or is it one for a gas fitter? In my minds eye, I buy a length of hose, cut a bit to length, and then plug in place of the old one, like plugging in a bunsen burner at school, and then tighten a jubilee clip? Or is there more to it?

Gas is one of my big fears on board, so I don't want to bodge it, but at the same time, it sounds like a very simple job.

Yes it is a simple job. If the low pressure hoses are pushed onto "Fulham" nozzles and secured with jubilee clips it is just a question of pulling, or carefully cutting, off the old ones pushing on the new ones ( bit of saliva to lubricate) and re-clipping. Use new clips if the old ones look manky. (dont forget to slip them onto the hose before fitting it!)

Armoured hoses will have made up ends so will have to be bought to the correct length and secured with new copper olives and new nuts unless you cut the old ones off and reuse them.
Please no jointing compound and definitely no ptfe tape on compression joints.

Do not overtighten. Hand tight plus ½ to ¾ turn should be adequate. The aim is to compress the olive tightly onto the pipe without distorting the pipe.


Some places only seem to stock the orange reinforced high pressure hose . Its a bit difficult to push onto Fulham nozzles because it does not give so much as the black low pressure hose. If you can get the black non reinforced stuff I'd use that for the low pressure connections but the orange stuff will do of course.

Make sure you don't buy stuff that's already several years down the line towards its 5 year life span.

Test the joints you have made with, ideally a leak detecting spray, or with some well diluted washing up liquid ( If you use w'up liquid wash it off after wards ... they say it's corrosive)

Some argument against armoured hose esp where its not needed because you cannot inspect it!

Don't forget the 5 year limit applies to the HP hose between bottle and regulator, where applicable, as well as to the LP hoses. Also dont forget that it is recommended that the regulators are replaced after 10 years.

The 5 year limit for hose and the 10 year limit for regulators are both *@z$&/* but that's what they say, so you are stuffed.

Southampton Calor centre mentioned several times already :
http://www.socal.co.uk/Toolbox/22 But Doha is not near there is it?

 

[sailorman]

Could someone please inform me why the solid copper pipe gas system is recommended with the joints and all. For many years I had the length of rubber gas pipe secured at each end to gas bottle and cooker. This gas pipe ran inside a reinforced larger diameter pipe which was securely fastened and gave good protection. There was no joints and no problems in 50 years with this set up. The gas pipe was inspected annually and renewed every 5 years as a precaution. I have now fitted this what is to me inferior system of solid pipes with ovals and joins etc to keep my insurance happy. Is the soild gas pipes system indeed superior and safer or am I just being an Old Troll. One of the joys of the Forum is to put your hat on a stick and put above the parapet to count the holes in it.

i installed mine in a similar manner
ie copper encased in reinforced plastic hose with a jubilee clip at each end

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Could someone please inform me why the solid copper pipe gas system is recommended with the joints and all. For many years I had the length of rubber gas pipe secured at each end to gas bottle and cooker......

Old Troll - the simple answer is yes; "All Hose" systems can be used provided they comply with a standard. The link in Post No 4 above has this information in it.

The reasons that they prefer piped systems are listed in the link above as well.

 

[TradewindSailor]

Old Troll - the simple answer is yes; "All Hose" systems can be used provided they comply with a standard. The link in Post No 4 above has this information in it.

The reasons that they prefer piped systems are listed in the link above as well.

From what I remember the RCD requires flexible hose length to be kept to a minimum, i.e. from the gas cylinder to the supply copper pipe in the gas locker, and from the supply copper pipe to the appliance at the other end. The copper tube must have no joints in it, i.e. each appliance must have it's own copper supply pipe. (I could be wrong. The American Yacht Council have different requirements I believe).

As you are not required to keep a private pleasure boat to the RCD, you don't have to comply. However, most surveyors will use the RCD 'requirements' as the minimum standard for safety issues such as these ...... and hence your insurers will require them, and you could be held liable if you have an accident and haven't complied.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

All Hose Gas Systems

...... and hence your insurers will require them, and you could be held liable if you have an accident and haven't complied.

I dont see what the issue would be if the "all hose" system was compliant with standards in the link. A cut and paste job below: -

‘All-hose’ supply system
We cannot recommend using ‘all-hose’ systems since hose is
known to permeate gas through its walls and it is not highly resistant
to mechanical damage. LPG hose has minimal fire resistance. It
deteriorates with age, with exposure to sunlight and exposure to
the elements. If you are considering an all-hose system for new
purchase or replacement, you are cautioned to consider these
issues very carefully.
BS EN ISO 10239:2000 does recognise continuous ‘all-hose’ LPG
supply-lines, however the UK National Annex also makes the following
points: ‘In line with the previous requirements in BS 5482-3, it is
recommended that any application of LPG hose should be of
minimum practical length. The installation should allow for regular
inspection, at least annually, and for replacement if any
deterioration is found.’
The risk of deterioration or damage to an all-hose system is much
greater compared to that of pipework systems.

Do ‘all-hose’ systems comply fully with ISO 10239?
Check that ‘all-hose’ systems are fully compliant with ISO 10239.
‘All hose’ systems must fully comply with ISO 10239 as follows:
n each length of hose must be routed from within the cylinder locker or
housing directly to the individual appliance or appliance isolation
valve; and,
n hoses must have permanently attached end fittings, such as swaged
sleeve or sleeve and threaded insert; and,
n hoses must not be routed through an engine compartment; and,
n hoses must be accessible for inspection over their entire length and
connections must be readily accessible; and,
n hose connections must be stress free, i.e. not subjected to tension or
kinking under any conditions of use; and,
n hoses must be supported at least at 1m (39 in) intervals.

If the RCD uses the noted standards above, then RCD Compliant vessels can have "all hose" systems and be CE marked. That's how I, as an amateur, understand it.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I dont see what the issue would be if the "all hose" system was compliant with standards in the link. A cut and paste job below: -





If the RCD uses the noted standards above, then RCD Compliant vessels can have "all hose" systems and be CE marked. That's how I, as an amateur, understand it.

I dont have the current RCD regulations to hand, so I can't comment on the above.

 

[Old Troll]

Old Troll

Thank you for the information guys! As far as I can make out my old system was compliant with the rules. I shall use the guidelines to farther improve my gas system. Thanks Again.

 

[sighmoon]

Thanks for the responses - all very informative.

 

[Bert Large]

I am rather alarmed with what I am reading here regarding all this DIY gas work being carried out.
LPG gas is more lethal than the natural gas used in most homes, due to it being heavier than air so it will sink into bilges etc. un-noticed & running at a higher pressure, typically 28 mbar for Butane & 37mbar for propane, domestic natural Gas is 20mbar.

I am willing to bet not many of you would undertake gas work in your homes, yet you are happy to do it in your boats.

Surely it is worth paying a relatively small amount to a professional with the correct test equipment & knowledge etc.

 

[sailorman]

I am rather alarmed with what I am reading here regarding all this DIY gas work being carried out.
LPG gas is more lethal than the natural gas used in most homes, due to it being heavier than air so it will sink into bilges etc. un-noticed & running at a higher pressure, typically 28 mbar for Butane & 37mbar for propane, domestic natural Gas is 20mbar.

I am willing to bet not many of you would undertake gas work in your homes, yet you are happy to do it in your boats.

Surely it is worth paying a relatively small amount to a professional with the correct test equipment & knowledge etc.

i have been doing gas on my boats for 40 yrs & professionally on boats before that.
You point is what exactly

 

[PetiteFleur]

I am rather alarmed with what I am reading here regarding all this DIY gas work being carried out.
LPG gas is more lethal than the natural gas used in most homes, due to it being heavier than air so it will sink into bilges etc. un-noticed & running at a higher pressure, typically 28 mbar for Butane & 37mbar for propane, domestic natural Gas is 20mbar.

I am willing to bet not many of you would undertake gas work in your homes, yet you are happy to do it in your boats.

Surely it is worth paying a relatively small amount to a professional with the correct test equipment & knowledge etc.

I also have done gas work on several boats and as long as you follow all the guidelines, are competent and confident in your work you should not have a problem. Always tested afterwards with soapy water and hoses changed after 5 years - on my 'to do' list. (We don't have gas at home - we are rural and OIL is B***** expensive!!!)