Gas bottle storage

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ashanta

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Could someone tell what the rules are regarding storage / use of gas bottle on board older boats. My boat is 1986 and there is no separate locker for the gas bottle. My question is if boats were built / designed that way, is it accepted for insurance purposes. I can understand later boats building in lockers as legislation is brought in. Thanks in anticipation.
 
I really don't think an Insurance Company will be swayed by a boat architect when it comes to gas installations.

https://www.towergateinsurance.co.uk/boat-insurance/gas-safety-on-your-boat

Check your boat's gas system - Practical Boat Owner
https://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/check-your-boats-gas-system-19785
Mar 12, 2015 - Many insurers require a Gas Safety Certificate, particularly on purchase, .... Palikonda II's new gas pipe runs from the gas bottle locker, forward ...

Yacht Insurance Guides - Gas safety on your boat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfutR_HfLVw
 
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My survey highligted some issues for my purchase of a 1977 boat regarding Gas and it needed corrected before Insurance would insure me
Keep safe Gas is dangerous :encouragement:
 
I was obliged to build a box on the deck of an older yacht to take gas bottles. The important thing is that if they leak, the gas will drain overboard, not sink into the bilge.

I've seen some very nasty accidents caused by gas - will never forget the sight of two young men both on fire in a boat yard where I was staying. One managed to get off the boat but collapsed before reaching the water. We managed to save him, but the other was too badly burned. Gas isn't to be messed with.
 
The 1970's Nicholson 39 I looked at had a dedicated gas locker, which I thought to be factory-fitted.

It's up to your insurance company what they accept. Pants were only concerned about items mentioned by the surveyor when I recently bought it, and were quite relaxed about them.
 
If the damage to the boat (explosion) is consequential to the failure of a gas valve, and the insurance does not include consequential loss coverage (many/most do not), then they have little exposure... but you are not covered. Same for through hulls. It is a failure of maintenance, not an accident, such as a collision, reef, or storm.

Read the fine print. You are probably not as "insured" as you think.
 
I think regardless of the insurance aspect, you should have a safe place to store your bottles. My Mirage 28 had a locker for one bottle so the spare was stored in the anchor locker which had a drain (although not really large enough diameter).
 
ghostlymoron said:
I think regardless of the insurance aspect, you should have a safe place to store your bottles. My Mirage 28 had a locker for one bottle so the spare was stored in the anchor locker which had a drain (although not really large enough diameter).
Click to expand...

Exactly. I've had propane bottles leak, both from the valve and the regulator (more common--the regulator diaphragm is greatest single risk).
 
ashanta said:
Could someone tell what the rules are regarding storage / use of gas bottle on board older boats. My boat is 1986 and there is no separate locker for the gas bottle. My question is if boats were built / designed that way, is it accepted for insurance purposes. I can understand later boats building in lockers as legislation is brought in. Thanks in anticipation.
Click to expand...

Fitted a complete new locker on my 1989 Colvic Watson, the gas bottle must be secure and also the locker drainage at the bottom to outside the boat.

View attachment 78921View attachment 78920
 
coopec said:
I really don't think an Insurance Company will be swayed by a boat architect when it comes to gas installations.

https://www.towergateinsurance.co.uk/boat-insurance/gas-safety-on-your-boat

Check your boat's gas system - Practical Boat Owner
https://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/check-your-boats-gas-system-19785
Mar 12, 2015 - Many insurers require a Gas Safety Certificate, particularly on purchase, .... Palikonda II's new gas pipe runs from the gas bottle locker, forward ...

Yacht Insurance Guides - Gas safety on your boat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfutR_HfLVw
Click to expand...

See also Chapter 7 of the Boat Safety Scheme
http://www.marinesurveys.net/BoatSafety/Guideline-chap7LPG.pdf
 
My 1975 Nicholson has a self draining gas bottle locker of the usual type and, in the self draining cockpit cave lockers, outboard of where the liferafts plural went and where the liferaft singular now goes, fitted stowage for another six bottles, with a notice saying that only un-started bottles can be stowed there. The self drainingness of these lockers is not as good as the self drainingness of the actual gas locker.
 
My 1980 yacht never had gas. When we installed a gas cooker we decided to install the gas bottle in a s/s frame on the stern rail. The frame has a sunbrella cover so the gas bottle is not exposed to sunlight. It all looks neat and is probably the safest way to locate a gas bottle with regard to a leak
 
geem said:
My 1980 yacht never had gas. When we installed a gas cooker we decided to install the gas bottle in a s/s frame on the stern rail. The frame has a sunbrella cover so the gas bottle is not exposed to sunlight. It all looks neat and is probably the safest way to locate a gas bottle with regard to a leak
Click to expand...

Yes, there is no requirement to have an actual locker. Bottles have to be stowed so that any leaking gas cannot enter the hull.
 
thinwater said:
If the damage to the boat (explosion) is consequential to the failure of a gas valve, and the insurance does not include consequential loss coverage (many/most do not), then they have little exposure... but you are not covered. Same for through hulls. It is a failure of maintenance, not an accident, such as a collision, reef, or storm.

Read the fine print. You are probably not as "insured" as you think.
Click to expand...

Is that consequential loss?

In my understanding, consequential loss would mean the additional costs you had beyond the thing you insured. I assume people insure boats not valves.

So if you had a week holiday planned, already booked flights, hire car, hotel at the airport to have a decent night's sleep, marina fees along a route... Then the week before your boat explodes and you no longer are in need of marina/flight/hotel etc... That is a consequential loss. That is what is definitely normally excluded.
 
thinwater said:
If the damage to the boat (explosion) is consequential to the failure of a gas valve, and the insurance does not include consequential loss coverage (many/most do not), then they have little exposure... but you are not covered. Same for through hulls. It is a failure of maintenance, not an accident, such as a collision, reef, or storm.

Read the fine print. You are probably not as "insured" as you think.
Click to expand...

What? Don't think so. I would not accept insurance on this basis. Its almost worthless.
 
geem said:
My 1980 yacht never had gas. When we installed a gas cooker we decided to install the gas bottle in a s/s frame on the stern rail. The frame has a sunbrella cover so the gas bottle is not exposed to sunlight. It all looks neat and is probably the safest way to locate a gas bottle with regard to a leak
Click to expand...

Well you being an engineer would know all about moment of force, leverage etc. But stowing two 20kg bottles of gas at deck level instead of lower down in a locker would have to be a consideration (particularly on a smaller yacht) surely?
 
My last insurance co. 'Y' always wanted Gas Safe certificates for the gas installation as a condition of the insurance.

During one of the Gas Safe inspections, one of the inspectors went off on the need to install bubble testers, pipe routing in certain places and lots of other changes. Except they weren't requirements. He was trying to up sell his service for modernisation/new best practice items even though my basic but good condition gas installation met the current regulations as it was.

Please research the difference between requirements and recommendations before agreeing to have any parts of your gas installation changed, even by a Gas Safe certified person.

And rather amusingly, one surveyor did try to cast aspersions on one of the Gas Safe certificates. Why? It's because he didn't personally know the Gas Safe engineer that had signed the certificate. Sometimes I do wonder what this world is coming to...
 
langstonelayabout said:
My last insurance co. 'Y' always wanted Gas Safe certificates for the gas installation as a condition of the insurance.

During one of the Gas Safe inspections, one of the inspectors went off on the need to install bubble testers, pipe routing in certain places and lots of other changes. Except they weren't requirements. He was trying to up sell his service for modernisation/new best practice items even though my basic but good condition gas installation met the current regulations as it was.

Please research the difference between requirements and recommendations before agreeing to have any parts of your gas installation changed, even by a Gas Safe certified person.

And rather amusingly, one surveyor did try to cast aspersions on one of the Gas Safe certificates. Why? It's because he didn't personally know the Gas Safe engineer that had signed the certificate. Sometimes I do wonder what this world is coming to...
Click to expand...

Any Gas work to remodernise a boat or a new installtion where gas will be used no matter if on boats or houses , will fall under the Gas saftey umberella and must be fitted by a qualified gas fitter , this was due to the number of deaths on Narrow Boats many years ago , it is not just CO2 but CO and the Gas itself that will cause death ,
older installations are not covered as they have been installed before legislation but this will be activated once you change , replace, modify your system , as stated watch your insurance, if you blow up because you did the work I suspect you will have issues , were as if you blow up but show them a certificate the Gas fitter is liable and you showed due dillengence .
Been disscuseed many times , I always wonder why people think that Gas on a boat is safer than there house , when if fact it is probably more deadly with poor fittings , old pipes , corroded high pressure hoses , no alarms,
That old saying it will never happen to me , until it happens remember it will happen to some one this year could be you :nonchalance:
 
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