Gas bottle holder drainage.

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Clive_Rigden

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I'm moving the gas bottle from the galley (I know - not before time!) to the aft starboard locker aboard an Hustler 30. Do any Jolly Jack Tars have polite suggestions as to how I can organize a drain for the bottle holder without allowing seawater to enter the locker from the cockpit?

<hr width=100% size=1>Khyber
 
the locker should drain overside. a drain into the cockpit could result in an explosion if a crew dropped a cigarette etc.

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Saw this on Morgan Giles and since on several others with lowish freeboard and not too much storage generally..

a bracket holding the gas bottle is placed on deck (usually somwhere aft) and a nice galv bucket placed over the gas bottle with some lashing or lanyard to prevent washing overboard.. This arrangement has passed Inland Water Ways safety scheme and also means you don't add any more holes to your boat..

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But if your cockpit is self-draining, gas should drain OK too. I suspect its not ideal, but its the arrangement I have (had, sob) on my boat.

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Gaslow do a nice little container for LPG bottles that you could fit in the locker see www.gaslow.co uk (also www.bes.co.uk)the pressure gauges they sell will also detect any leaks. Personally I see no problem with the gas locker draining into a self=draining cockpit....it will encourage people to stop smoking

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Depends on your layout, I achieved this on a Vivacity20 by 'suspending' a homemade locker from the underside of the cockpit seat, with a circular locking hatch for putting the bottle inside. I used a Bomar hatch but there are cheaper ones around now. I used a Calor Gas small gas bottle. Sealed all round the flange at the top, drain out the bottom leading to the transom. Perhaps you could suspend something similar on your aft deck?

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... :-) /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
I doubt if there is an easy way of making a self-draining gas locker unless you can take the drain to the transom... there just isn't the height in a locker to allow a fall to a point topsides that won't be under water on a heel.
As others have posted, gas draining into a cockpit will accumulate there and possibly spill through the hatch into the saloon.
I had the same problem on my Hillyard which has the added problem of a cockpit that drains into the bilge. The answer was to build a locker which sits on the foredeck against the saloon coaming. Its just big anough to take two 2Kg Camping Gaz bottles. Pipework goes through the cabin roof glands and is actually shorter than a run from the stern of the boat.
Any leaking gas will go out through the scuppers.

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A bit out of my area of professional expertise, but I've had some experience with it...

If you're referring to the small gas cylinders for gas grills and camp stoves, most sailors here stow them in canvas or Sunbrella "hammocks" made for that purpose, hung on lifelines or rails. Magma (who makes barbeque grills) shows this one on their website...I suspect you could make one for a 1/4 of their price, though: http://www.magmabbq.com/PropaneCanisterStorage.htm

If you're referring to full size propane or CNG tanks, I don't know what your laws require...but US CG regs require that they be stored in approved lockers that are vented at the bottom to the outside of the boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 
Re: Alternatively...

Ditch the gas cooker and switch to Parrafin or Meths.. this alleviates the gas locker problem completely!.. I did this and I'm v happy using a parrafin (ideal K) smallest of the Taylors range.. Others sware by their Origo Meths cookers..

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Re: Alternatively...

This is something I'm considering, especially as I want to install a heater as well. Taylors do a good twin burniner & oven but they don't come cheap - whereas an almighty explosion does, I hear you say . . .

Oh! It's never done Mrs. Ohdrat! Are your gentlemen as demanding as mine?

<hr width=100% size=1>Khyber
 
Peggy et al
An extract from the UK inland waterway requirements...
"If LPG cylinders or their valves or fittings are damaged and gas leaks into your
boat's interior there is a risk of it being ignited and causing a fire or explosion.
To reduce the risk of this happening every cylinder (full or empty, stored or in
use) must be properly secured on open deck or in a suitable cylinder locker:

Either on decks, cabin tops or outside cockpits:

They must either be stored on open deck, cabin tops or outside cockpits, as
long as any leaking LPG can drain overboard.
They must be at least 1m (3ft 3ins) away from hatches, other openings into
the boat and possible sources of ignition.
Cylinders, low pressure regulators and associated equipment can be
enclosed in a shelter on open cabin tops or outside of cockpits, as long as
any escaping gas can flow overboard and not into the confines of the boat.
Or, for cylinder lockers:

Cylinders can be secured in a suitable cylinder locker, which must be gas
tight to the height of the regulator and valve. To help keep the lockers gas
tight they must be designed to only open from the top.

Cylinder valves, regulators and other components in the lockers can be
damaged if boating equipment, such as mooring pins, are thrown in. Damaged gas components could quickly leak, leading to a serious fire or
explosion potentially. To minimise the risk of this happening cylinder lockers
must have a lid or cover to protect the cylinders, low pressure regulators
and associated equipment from mechanical damage.

To prevent gas, which has escaped in the cylinder locker, from entering the
interior of the boat LPG must be able to drain effectively from the lowest
point of the cylinder locker to a point outside the hull, above the waterline.
Boats manufactured before 3 January 2000, which have a cylinder locker
drain as near as practical to the bottom of the cylinder locker, are exempt
from this part of this Standard. [7.2]

The full requirements including arrangements and construction can be found at http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/part7lpginstallations_97.asp

Hope this is useful. If anyone has difficulties making suitable arrangements please seek advice from a BSS examiner or contact our office directly through bss.enquiries@boatsafetyscheme.com or phone 01923 201278



<hr width=100% size=1>Rob@BSSOffice
Go boating - Stay safe
 
I sometimes miss the obvious but I had heard of draining tyhe gas locker into the cockpit before. So I went and stared at my cockpit drains ( probably looked like eyeore with his balloon) and saw water a few inches down so I can't see how the gas gets out.
bewildered of kent

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You're right, the gas won't get out. It would have to "push" the water out of the way to do that! Other water can get out because it is at a higher level than what you can see looking down the hole but gas just ain't "heavy" (dense) enough.

I have the same problem as anyone else - I jus tdon't have enough "depth" in the boat. The gas bottle lives in the lazarette inside a grp box I made. This is gas-tight up to about an inch above the top of the regulator and then has a loose fitting lid. I have a tube from the bottom of it to a skin fitting as low as I can get on the transom and as close to the centreline of the boat as is practical. Although water isn't a problem when heeled, a following sea always rams some water into the container. In the end I gave up trying to stop it and just raised the bottom of the bottle on a little turntable. This keeps the bottom of the bottle out of the half inch or so of salt water that's always in there and makes unscrewing the regulator very easy - just hold the regulator and spin the gas bottle.

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