Garmin moan

Sticky Fingers

Sticky Fingers

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Garmin - was moan now happy!

Just tried to redeem the "latest map guarantee" on my 10-month-old Garmin charts. I'm not happy.

Summary is they have discontinued that exact grouping of charts (UK-IRE-NL / VEU706L in my case) and the replacement isn't the same, so I now have to buy again. What a rip off practice. Utterly shameful.

A discount has been offered as an inducement which I have rejected.

The Garmin support tech was very apologetic, I got the impression I wasn't the only one displeased by this.

UPDATE: See last post!
 
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Not that I know of. This is as much a matter of principle as practicality, I probably don't need the update (though getting an update to show the latest Portsmouth harbour boat channel / lateral marks positions, and the HMS QE pilotage leading marks etc would be good).

Navionics (now owned by Garmin) still not supported.
 
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Also recently disappointed by Garmin who washed their hands of my 2nd Garmin plotter to die at 5 years old. I wasn't expecting a free replacement but a bit more than "legacy product - not interested". They became interested when I involved the unfortunate retailer with citations from the Consumer Contract Regs.
A far cry from Raymarine who last year carried out a fixed price repair on my 10 year old ST60+ without quibble.
 
It's all a bit disappointing. I can't afford / don't want the hassle of changing the Garmin gear for another brand. If Navionics ever comes out on Garmin I'll probably bite the bullet then and move to Navionics charts, which at least look better than the Garmin standard Fisher Price offering.
 
I've got an ongoing discussion with Garmin at the moment. The last comment from them was that the £700 hand held I have is 'simple device' and not suitable for complex racing navigation. Complex like finding waypoints apparently... I have my head in the sand regarding updating charts in the future, but fully expect to be more disappointed.

I'm still with 12 months warranty, and so may be involving the dealer (as per Quiddle above) if they can't make it do what I want.
 
I am also affected by the new areas of coverage by Garmin charts. I asked about charts and for assistance in operating my chart plotter at the London boat show. A new "reduced price " and reduced area chart was expensive. A Garmin representative tried to demonstrate the use of a plotter to me but couldn't as it hadn't got any UK charts installed. I also asked about using Homeport for planning and asked about proper user manuals which Garmin do not have. His advice was to look on You Tube for instructional videos- No I cannot find a video that helps me.
It is a shame that Garmin cannot fully support the customers of their expensive products. I feel that I am under using a plotter that has facilities I cannot access. So I am not happy with Garmin either.
 
Over many years of wasting huge amounts of time gawping at this forum, Garmin have received repeated criticism for leaving buyers in the lurch with mapping software.
That's good enough for me, I would never buy a Garmin plotter. Shame really because some of their hardware is very good.
 
doug748 said:
Over many years of wasting huge amounts of time gawping at this forum, Garmin have received repeated criticism for leaving buyers in the lurch with mapping software.
That's good enough for me, I would never buy a Garmin plotter. Shame really because some of their hardware is very good.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I'd read it all too. There just didn't seem to be much of an alternative.
 
doug748 said:
Over many years of wasting huge amounts of time gawping at this forum, Garmin have received repeated criticism for leaving buyers in the lurch with mapping software.
That's good enough for me, I would never buy a Garmin plotter. Shame really because some of their hardware is very good.
Click to expand...

And that's the key point - their hardware is excellent and communicates well (radio - as - plotter - radar).

Far better than the other names.
 
Garmin plotters are very strongly tied to their own data format for maps. I deliberately said maps, not charts - Garmin sell into many areas including motoring, walking, aviation and sailing, and they use the same format for all. That's why other suppliers aren't supported. However, Garmin don't actually produce "Garmin" charts - if you look at the copyright page when they turn on, you'll see a list of the map suppliers for the maps loaded. Garmin provide their approved suppliers with software to produce the maps. Further, Garmin maps use a very restricted set of symbols (you can roll your own, but it's not easy!). For Navionics charts to be supported would require Navionics to supply charts in Garmin format - not by any means impossible. Even an outsider like myself has produced charts for Garmin plotters, though it looks as if the range of software available has moved on since I last did it.

Garmin's format is designed so it supports different display scales in a manner that is controlled by the chart supplier, rather than the user. It does this by having each chart supplied at a range of scales. Again, this runs counter to the way most other marine plotters work.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Garmin's format is designed so it supports different display scales in a manner that is controlled by the chart supplier, rather than the user. It does this by having each chart supplied at a range of scales. Again, this runs counter to the way most other marine plotters work.
Click to expand...

Is that why the charts look so Micky mouse? I didn't pick Garmin, it was the default option with the boat and although I've no issues with the hardware or the sailing instruments (other than the bonkers cost of them), I hate the look of the charts and the mega clunky zooming and panning. I'd never buy it again after this.

I'll spend a happy few hours at the boat show this September stalking the other manufacturers. If I get a lottery win I'll change the plotter out for something that isn't rooted in protectionism and bad faith marketing.
 
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Scala said:
Is that why the charts look so Micky mouse? I didn't pick Garmin, it was the default option with the boat and although I've no issues with the hardware or the sailing instruments (other than the bonkers cost of them), I hate the look of the charts and the mega clunky zooming and panning. I'd never buy it again after this.

I'll spend a happy few hours at the boat show this September stalking the other manufacturers. If I get a lottery win I'll change the plotter out for something that isn't rooted in protectionism and bad faith marketing.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess it looked like a good idea when map displays were new, and processing power limited. These days it all seems like an unnecessary complication, when the plotter can easily have processing power greater than a main-frame had when Garmin first started displaying maps!

Cartographically, it does have one advantage - the generalization is controlled by the chart supplier, so it can do sensible things like replace an area with many rocks at large scale with a reef symbol at smaller scale. Automatic generalization (at plotter levels of compuitational power) won't do that. In technical terms, generalization (adapting a map at large scale for use at a smaller scale) has several components - geometric simplification, feature reduction (remove less important features) and semantic generaliztion (e.g. replacing individual rocks with a reef). The first and second lend themselves to straightforward automation, but the third is harder to automate.

I did once produce a chart for a Garmin chart-plotter (most of my work in this area was situational awareness mapping for aviation map displays), and I didn't think the symbology was that bad. However, I didn't try to be clever with the scale variation, and simply allowed the software was using to generate the layers automatically.
 
I have a Garmin plotter on-board and a mix of Stowe sensors. The electronic chart is not my primary navigation tool, I prefer paper charts, but I am considering changing to Garmin sensors: radar; wind; depth and speed through the water as I can display them on the chart plotter.
 
I have a small Garmin 556s with pre-loaded maps for whole of UK & Ireland. These are not free to update maps. I have updated them in the past via a download from the Garmin website. I've just checked and an update is still available at the same cost of £49.99 but via their Garmin Express software (just as easy).

So updates are still available for UK and Ireland charts, but not, by the sound of it, the free ones you were promised Scala. And that, I agree, is a poor show from Garmin.

PS: My Garmin car Satnav with lifetime free map updates are still free, for now!
 
Yes this is not about a "lifetime free maps" or whatever. It's about a promise that if you buy the product you can have one free update within 12 months.

It's a breach of the sale of goods act if nothing else (not as described).

I've sent off a snottygram to their UK head office by carrier owl.
 
Scala said:
Yes this is not about a "lifetime free maps" or whatever. It's about a promise that if you buy the product you can have one free update within 12 months.

It's a breach of the sale of goods act if nothing else (not as described).

I've sent off a snottygram to their UK head office by carrier owl.
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Ah, I see, I slightly misunderstood your original post. I'm surprised they are giving you the run around as I was always impressed with Garmins after sales service in the UK... but I've not had need of it for a few years so sounds like that has changed. Hopefully your letter will reap results.
 
Thanks for this thread I am updating my plotter and associated instruments so Garmin will not be on the list after this.
 
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