Garmin electronics

[lustyd]

Hi all with another new boat comes another electronics upgrade as the new one comes with an obsolete plotter for which charts are not available.
On the last boat we went B&G but with their apparent ending support for Navionics (which I consider anti-consumer) and the many and varied bugs and problems I’m considering a swap to Garmin.
They have so many plotters. This was the reason we went B&G last time over Garmin, I just can’t work out which of the 50 or so models is recent or has the right features.

Can someone explain simply their naming and numbering to me? I don’t want to buy something slow and outdated since this boat will be with us for a long time.

 

[[194224]]

You may already have come across this, if so then I apologise. It's a basic comparison of technical aspects of different devices but clearly with no end-user commentary. Furthermore it is not recent but may enable you to discount some earlier models that are still on sale.


https://www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/Interface/GarminComparisonCharts2021.pdf

 

[lustyd]

Thanks that’s very helpful, I imagine there’s a current one hidden somewhere on Garmin’s website that I’ve yet to find

I must confess I think my outdated thinking might be part of the issue. On further looking it seems that Garmin have very much embraced the “if you want buttons then buy some separately” mentality. With a remote the touch only range makes more sense and these seem to be what Garmin are pushing so I guess are newish?

Are there any issues or frustrations I should be aware of with Garmin? I feel I’ve finally made peace with the B&G foibles and accepted that certain features just don’t work so maybe better the devil I know?

 

[ImpImp]

I'm a bit of a Garmin fan having been using them, initially on land, since the mid 1990s. I therefore fitted out our boat pretty much fully with Garmin kit with no significant issues and, in particular, I found their support absolutely first class.

I know some don't like the symbology they use on their mapping and you are restricted to their map files.

 

[lustyd]

Their mapping does now include Navionics though and presumably openstreetmap like their other products so less of an issue than it used to be. My Fenix 7 and Epix both include global trail maps with lifetime updates so Garmin have definitely evolved.
I think most wouldn’t have spotted the issues with B&G either but I’m a bit of a power user so I found lots of issues like file corruption when syncing to the cloud, and various network issues which are down to their determination to own the network settings even when in a network with other devices. I also found a few frustrating N2K bugs which occasionally require a restart of the network before sensors work properly.
I have a lot of other Garmin kit so I’m confident there are bugs or idiosyncrasies in there somewhere!

 

[jwilson]

My only problem with Garmin was a plotter that wasn't waterproof in the cockpit - by about a year old it had condensation on the inside of the screen (which cleared once on for a while) and after about 2 years and by then warranty expired opened it up and about a tablespoonful of water came out. They would not repair it but gave me a bit of a discount on another identical one - which might have been a very-end-of-line model then. Around 2 years later that replacement plotter started to have condensation problems, and then died. On opening it up - water came out!

Garmin Support said - "... this model no longer supported". Pity as I liked the Garmin device. But have not bought Garmin since. I replaced it with a Standard Horizon plotter, that worked fine for 10 years, two years outside, then moved inside to the chart table.

 

[lustyd]

Right. Happened to bump into the Garmin chap yesterday and learned some things.
Their numbering is logical but doesn't seem to be explained anywhere. Apparently a 923 is 9" (9) uk/EU (2, US would be a 4) and series 3 (3 being newer than 2). the 8000 series is better resolution and more capable in terms of networking.
From the demo, they are all fast so any speed difference between cheaper and more expensive series seems irrelevant. The speed blows the pants off of B&G interfaces, even the Zeus 3s I have which is orders of magnitude faster than my Vulcan.
The instruments are chunky like it's 1999 but there is a modern wider version which is slim and matches the modern plotters.

And the biggest thing I learned? Garmin didn't actually add support for Navionics charts in their plotters like we all thought. They created Garmin compatible different versions of Navionics chart data and the whole lot is incompatible with actual Navionics chart cards. Bummer. Even worse, it seems the old half price trick doesn't work on the Garmin side to get new areas - does anyone have experience of this (maybe @PaulRainbow?)

 

[PaulRainbow]

Right. Happened to bump into the Garmin chap yesterday and learned some things.
Their numbering is logical but doesn't seem to be explained anywhere. Apparently a 923 is 9" (9) uk/EU (2, US would be a 4) and series 3 (3 being newer than 2). the 8000 series is better resolution and more capable in terms of networking.
From the demo, they are all fast so any speed difference between cheaper and more expensive series seems irrelevant. The speed blows the pants off of B&G interfaces, even the Zeus 3s I have which is orders of magnitude faster than my Vulcan.
The instruments are chunky like it's 1999 but there is a modern wider version which is slim and matches the modern plotters.

The GMI/GHC10s were chunky, but they were discontinued some time ago. The GMI20/GHC20s are much "sleeker", black and lower profile. The 20 series was launched 10 years ago and is similar in profile to the Raymarine i70 etc. The GNC models are autopilot controllers, Garmin Helm Control. The "wider model" you mention must be the new GHC50, which is the latest AP controller, This is lower profile than the GMI20/GHC20 and is also touch screen. It would be nice if Garmin would release a matching GMI50.

And the biggest thing I learned? Garmin didn't actually add support for Navionics charts in their plotters like we all thought. They created Garmin compatible different versions of Navionics chart data and the whole lot is incompatible with actual Navionics chart cards. Bummer. Even worse, it seems the old half price trick doesn't work on the Garmin side to get new areas - does anyone have experience of this (maybe @PaulRainbow?)

I'm still using Garmin G3 Vision charts, although my plotter does support Garmin Navionics. My current chart is 2 years old but i can update it for half price. I cannot see a way to change from G3 to Navionics without paying the full price and the coverage area is smaller (although i would never visit the are i would lose). Not a lot of incentive for me to move to Navionics.

 

[lustyd]

Thanks Paul, very useful. Yes that was the wider one. I'm hopeful they'll release a square version before we do the upgrade, but worst case it's another new nav pod and fit two of the wide ones. I was very impressed with the Garmin OS and speed so think we'll be swapping from B&G on the new boat. Then I just have to redo all of the electronics, electrics, lithium projects I finally completed on the old boat

In case anyone is curious, none of this increases the boat value!

 

[doug748]

Garmin have previous on the forum for neglecting/cutting adrift older charting formats. There was a moan up about 2006 and one later, maybe around ten years later.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Garmin have previous on the forum for neglecting/cutting adrift older charting formats. There was a moan up about 2006 and one later, maybe around ten years later.

Most of us would probably upgrade before 10 years was up, personally I don’t see that as a big problem. My plotter has G3 charts, I could update or renew on their current offers. My other instruments are Garmin but I have retained an independent legacy speed and depth in a narrow space above the hatch. I’ve had nothing but good experience with Garmin customer service, most recently 18 months ago. I bought an ex shop display NMEA2000 head, it wouldn’t receive network data. They replaced it with a new one.

 

[cpedw]

Most of us would probably upgrade before 10 years was up,

Are you sure about that? I'm working with a 20+ year old Raymarine C70 and while it keeps working, I don't plan to change it. There are too many other things to spend the money on.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Are you sure about that? I'm working with a 20+ year old Raymarine C70 and while it keeps working, I don't plan to change it. There are too many other things to spend the money on.

You're doing well with that. I would think the average life is round about 10 years, especially if updates cease to be available. And not that many people keep a boat that long. I can understand the reluctance to do upgrades on a boat you continually own.

 

[doug748]

For fun I will open an "Who has the most ancient electronic kit" thread. Stand by.

 

[lustyd]

Garmin have previous on the forum for neglecting/cutting adrift older charting formats. There was a moan up about 2006 and one later, maybe around ten years later.

The Raymarine on my new boat is 2004 and obsolete due to chart card format, and has been for several years.

Most of us would probably upgrade before 10 years was up

Have you tried shopping for boats? Literally nobody updates electronics (apart from muggins here, apparently who will give someone a real bargain shortly). Almost every boat has ST60 and some crappy old plotter if not worse. I've also yet to see a boat with updated ropes. I can only assume the sane people who are upgrading all keep their boats

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Do people not refit when they buy a boat? Am I the only mug who does that? We’ve replaced every bit of rope and wire in the last 2 years, and will do that again in another 3. All new electronics of course, and every bit of canvas work and upholstry. Oh and the vinyl graphics. The boat looks nearly new, not over 20. It’s worth it, both financially and in terms of satisfaction. I guess if it was some hideous old triple keeler it’s not. But most of that is simply maintenance. We can put to sea with confidence.

 

[Aja]

Do people not refit when they buy a boat? Am I the only mug who does that? We’ve replaced every bit of rope and wire in the last 2 years, and will do that again in another 3. All new electronics of course, and every bit of canvas work and upholstry. Oh and the vinyl graphics. The boat looks nearly new, not over 20. It’s worth it, both financially and in terms of satisfaction. I guess if it was some hideous old triple keeler it’s not. But most of that is simply maintenance. We can put to sea with confidence.

You will re-rig entirely every three years?
Wow!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You will re-rig entirely every three years?
Wow!

Plus the 2 its been there, every 5. It’s all highly stressed, it’s a high performance boat.

 

[lustyd]

Do people not refit when they buy a boat? Am I the only mug who does that?

Yes I did just that. Then I bought the new boat after owning the old for three years and effectively will hand the new owner £15k in new gear at the same price I bought the boat
We had intended to keep the current boat but requirements changed so just have to live with it. On the bright side this time we’ve had practice at the upgrades and have a do-over on the electronics choice.

 

[Tranona]

The Raymarine on my new boat is 2004 and obsolete due to chart card format, and has been for several years.

Have you tried shopping for boats? Literally nobody updates electronics (apart from muggins here, apparently who will give someone a real bargain shortly). Almost every boat has ST60 and some crappy old plotter if not worse. I've also yet to see a boat with updated ropes. I can only assume the sane people who are upgrading all keep their boats

Lot of truth there. One of the reasons boats come up for sale is because the owners can't face the cost of replacements/upgrades to essentially stand still. £20k on just sails and electronics on a 20 year old boat like that. Only makes sense to spend that kind of money if you are planning to keep the boat for a number of years - and no doubt sell when the big bills start to appear on the horizon again.

No different from houses. Change of ownership is the time when the money gets spent. New kitchen, extension, new paved drive and so on. Every single house in our 1970s road that has sold recently has a queue of tradesmans' Transits outside in the months following the change in ownership. Not just the ones like ours which still had the original or near original owners but even those which have already been through the process at least once. Had lots of time to observe this having lived here for40 years, done 3 lots of major works. No doubt when we pass on the buyers will do their own thing, including the costs in their mortgage.