Gardiennage - how much of it do you have / do you need?

[Bouba]

Other fliud s and the seawater system needs a turn -flush ----- it's not just the Oil

They don,t pack up cos the oil s gone off or not worked -- it's the other systems that create a big €€€€ bill .

Eg let's take a sensor an oil P one -it's been stud 6/12 dormant from Oct until Easter .
It's ceased up .Lack of use kaput

Yup modern all singing n dancing latest EDC What ever the marketing boys call it

1- alarm sounds
2- interlock prevents firing .
3- starts but drops into "safe " mode
4- all of the above

Engineer arrives -- lap top job -part is €140 ---on back order --funny that --MAN have ran out ! in April !
Labour -back n forth etc €1000 inc tax

Engineer says --these only " go " in his experiance in boats that lie dormant --
But he's not bothered it his bread n butter --- ask the mortuary technition - the guy that's dealing with dead engines every day , what's the comman denominator ?

I emphasize with you. But we are talking about the engine and its internal surfaces. A small electronic add on, while expensive and debilitating is not a mechanical part

 

[Momac]

The very best thing to do of course is to keep using the boat throughout the year .
However I am firmly in the group that thinks running engines for a few minutes and going nowhere has no benefit and is possibly detrimental .

 

[Portofino]

I emphasize with you. But we are talking about the engine and its internal surfaces. A small electronic add on, while expensive and debilitating is not a mechanical part

Arh --- see what you mean
I was thinking wether its best to periodic run up to temp over the winter in a none winterised engine ,for the general greater good and future hassle free boating .
If you can NOT -- Blow An Other Thousend ,that's a bonus .

MAN ( and big CAT,s MTU s ) blocks and internal are based on truck engines --1-200 hrs /year ain't gonna wear them out .
Road versions lifed for 1000000 ,s Km .

I,am on 730 hr (2003 )
MapishM iirc 1250 hrs in a younger boat ?
Ave boater is never gonna wear out the oilly bits

As I said ask the tech guys what goes wrong the most and what can be done to mitigate .
Periodic winter run ups to temps seems to be the answer --so far

 

[MapisM]

Mike F,s "Julian " never said idle for 10 mins --re read what Mike said .

Well, he said "I was told the other day by an experienced MAN engineer that it is advisable to start the engines and run at idle at least every month but for no longer than 10 mins".
What part of "idle...for no longer than 10 mins" did I misunderstand, exactly?

 

[Bouba]

Arh --- see what you mean
I was thinking wether its best to periodic run up to temp over the winter in a none winterised engine ,for the general greater good and future hassle free boating .
If you can NOT -- Blow An Other Thousend ,that's a bonus .

MAN ( and big CAT,s MTU s ) blocks and internal are based on truck engines --1-200 hrs /year ain't gonna wear them out .
Road versions lifed for 1000000 ,s Km .

I,am on 730 hr (2003 )
MapishM iirc 1250 hrs in a younger boat ?
Ave boater is never gonna wear out the oilly bits

As I said ask the tech guys what goes wrong the most and what can be done to mitigate .
Periodic winter run ups to temps seems to be the answer --so far

The comparison to trucks goes against what you say. Trucks are used everyday all day and that is good for the engine. They are not idled in the driveway then turned off.
Also, by virtue of sea water cooling, marine engines run colder than the truck/car engines on which they are based. So idling a few minutes in port does them no good. They should be under load.

 

[adey]

Maybe there's a market for external oil pumps with heaters? Bit OTT?

 

[Portofino]

Well, he said "I was told the other day by an experienced MAN engineer that it is advisable to start the engines and run at idle at least every month but for no longer than 10 mins".
What part of "idle...for no longer than 10 mins" did I misunderstand, exactly?

I assumed somthing has got lost in translation .
Not idle for longer than 10 ,book says 5 the owners manual .
And run them up to temp ,s which is easy in N -idle them for a "few " min or so - shut down .

This is what I have been consistently putting fwds and my Guardianne Co do Allways have done as part of there service .
They look after loads of boats all makes of diesel for abscent clients and also dealer stock -all marques
Who an I to challange them ?

Not just washing -every apparatus used -Geny ,bog,s airco pumps ,taps -water pump etc .
They also supply in the winter (and remove in May ) oil heaters to every space --- I,am not complianing .

 

[Portofino]

agree with above

I,am not advocating period running at idle only or NOT running up to temps .

How ever if you did that say 4-6 times from Oct to May --- think about it -- that's why I untroduced trucks .

Your boat may lasts 1500 or 2500 hrs for the "idler " or even not that before a big unscheduled bill
3-4-10,000 for the ran up temp gardienne boater .

Thing is as Infered generally Liesure rated boat oilly bits never see 1000,s of hours /year .
So any long term damage is deferred cos you will not see ( Bart excluded -btw ck out his history !) .

There is a 1000 hr biggie MAN service where they do the valve clearance and replace some other bits n bats it's more labour intensive than parts .

So if we take out the oilly bits it's the other stuff that suffers if left unwinterised for months on end .
Truck anology was to illustrate how robust the Olly bits are , so much so you don,t see it ,it's deferred ,

Anecdotally- my boat was storred professionally in a hanger for 3 1/2 years .
MAN agents on re commissioning ( previous ownership ) had to replace a few" bolt on " bit s like a new turbo on one engine and loads of sensors + other stuff .
None of which would have gone if it was regularly used .
So why risk long unwinterised lay ups ?

 

[rafiki_]

My Azi manual says not to idle for more than 5 mins for pollution reasons. Nothing to do with harming the engine. However I don't run the engines except for moving the boat.

 

[MapisM]

They look after loads of boats all makes of diesel for abscent clients and also dealer stock -all marques
Who an I to challange them ?

Well, the very same goes for myself - who am I to challenge what they do on all other boats, yours included?
Otoh, sure as hell neither those folks nor anyone else will ever do that on mine! :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, he said "I was told the other day by an experienced MAN engineer that it is advisable to start the engines and run at idle at least every month but for no longer than 10 mins".
What part of "idle...for no longer than 10 mins" did I misunderstand, exactly?

Yup thats correct. Actually what Julien was really against is the practice that many people still seem to follow which is starting the engines on a regular basis and then running them for an extended period at idle on the berth in an attempt to bring them up to operating temp. Look I'm just repeating what he told me and actually myself I've always followed the practice of not starting the engines at all over winter so I'm not even sure whether I will act on Julien's advice

 

[Tranona]

I wasn't aware of it, that must be tough...
I neither can nor want to give you a 7th opinion, but I suppose that wishing you all the very best for your health couldn't hurt! :encouragement:

Many thanks

Fortunately I am still alive (with a good prognosis) so just live with it!

Spent half my working life surrounded by economists and lawyers at uni and a big part of my work was helping medics become human and learn how to communicate with others! Hard work, but pleased that this is now part of initial training and young ones are much easier to get on with.