NigeCh
New member
As there seem to be here a whole set of those who take the Swellies in their stride, how about a pub meet on home ground?
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Gardd Fon, Y Felinheli?
- Thread starter NigeCh
- Start date
warrior40
New member
A nice lil' pub with great food, went there myself a few times, too far North for me though these days, do they still speak Welsh up there then?
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Heckler
Active member
Why do you think they call it y felinheli now
instead of port dinorwic?
i am a non welsh speaking taff, although je parle francais une peu and falah portuguese um poco and khalam arabia shweha.
and cannot understand why they have changed the name!!
s
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instead of port dinorwic?
i am a non welsh speaking taff, although je parle francais une peu and falah portuguese um poco and khalam arabia shweha.
and cannot understand why they have changed the name!!
s
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david_e
Active member
Re: Why do you think they call it y felinheli now
..because we could pronounce Port Dinorwic
)
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..because we could pronounce Port Dinorwic
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NigeCh
New member
Spray can graffitti
I'm not Welsh. What gets up my nose is that in N Wales some twats have sprayed out all the English on the dual language road signs - Assume that I'm a foreigner with a little English, then with the road signs only in Welsh then I'd be up stuck creek without a paddle - Some of these signs on the A5 have been daubed and uncleaned for over 3 years I've a good mind to take a can of spray paint and obliterate the unreadable unpronouncable Welsh where the twats have struck out the English so as to have road signs that are totally useless for everyone including the exponents of a dead language.
As for Y Felinheli and not Port Dinorwic, well it seems that nobody knows exactly what it means ... It could mean a 'sea water mill', but nobody's really sure ... and then if you ask a Welsh person to translate 'Elider Fawr' you get a strange look. It's odd too that you have the Carneddau, the Glyderau ... but what's the range called that Snowdon lies in? ---- More puzzlement from the fluet Welsh speakers.
Best of all is the sign in Welsh for 'Road Humps' - I fall about when I read it, just as I do when I pass a garage with a sign in Welsh for shock absorbers, breaks, and tyres.
I'm not Welsh. What gets up my nose is that in N Wales some twats have sprayed out all the English on the dual language road signs - Assume that I'm a foreigner with a little English, then with the road signs only in Welsh then I'd be up stuck creek without a paddle - Some of these signs on the A5 have been daubed and uncleaned for over 3 years I've a good mind to take a can of spray paint and obliterate the unreadable unpronouncable Welsh where the twats have struck out the English so as to have road signs that are totally useless for everyone including the exponents of a dead language.
As for Y Felinheli and not Port Dinorwic, well it seems that nobody knows exactly what it means ... It could mean a 'sea water mill', but nobody's really sure ... and then if you ask a Welsh person to translate 'Elider Fawr' you get a strange look. It's odd too that you have the Carneddau, the Glyderau ... but what's the range called that Snowdon lies in? ---- More puzzlement from the fluet Welsh speakers.
Best of all is the sign in Welsh for 'Road Humps' - I fall about when I read it, just as I do when I pass a garage with a sign in Welsh for shock absorbers, breaks, and tyres.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Spray can graffitti
Firstly Welsh is not a dead language. In places like Camarthenshire, where many of my family come from, over half the population are native welsh speakers.
Why should a Welsh place name be capable of being translated into an english. The true meanings have been lost in history. How many english speakers could explain to a foreign tourist what the following english place names mean: Bicester, Henley, Nempnett Thrubwell, Little Snoring , Long Duckmanton, Friskney Eaudike, Zeal Monachorum, Middle Wallop, Pease Pottage, Thrumpton, Morchard Bishop,The Birks. Sometimes place names don't mean anything, or their origins are long forgotten. Why should you expect Welsh people to translate names when most countries have place names that are similary obscure.
Carneddau is actually quite easy, it means 'mounds' or 'cairns'
Elidir is a persons name, so Elidir Fawr could have been named after a chieftain, or some other locally famous person. Incidentally this name made it to scotland as Lidir
As for the Snowdon Range, if I referred to it in the original long forgotten welsh name instead of the Anglo Saxon (Snow Dun = the snow hill or fortress) who would know what I meant other than someone who understands Old Welsh. Are you fluent in Old English?
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Firstly Welsh is not a dead language. In places like Camarthenshire, where many of my family come from, over half the population are native welsh speakers.
Why should a Welsh place name be capable of being translated into an english. The true meanings have been lost in history. How many english speakers could explain to a foreign tourist what the following english place names mean: Bicester, Henley, Nempnett Thrubwell, Little Snoring , Long Duckmanton, Friskney Eaudike, Zeal Monachorum, Middle Wallop, Pease Pottage, Thrumpton, Morchard Bishop,The Birks. Sometimes place names don't mean anything, or their origins are long forgotten. Why should you expect Welsh people to translate names when most countries have place names that are similary obscure.
Carneddau is actually quite easy, it means 'mounds' or 'cairns'
Elidir is a persons name, so Elidir Fawr could have been named after a chieftain, or some other locally famous person. Incidentally this name made it to scotland as Lidir
As for the Snowdon Range, if I referred to it in the original long forgotten welsh name instead of the Anglo Saxon (Snow Dun = the snow hill or fortress) who would know what I meant other than someone who understands Old Welsh. Are you fluent in Old English?
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NigeCh
New member
Yr Wyddfa
Cyngor Sir Caerfyrddin ... Transliterate that !!!
Welsh is still a dead language made more glorious by its alliterations.
As an altenative pub meet, may I suggest The Douglas Arms in Bethesda where pints are uniquely sold in pounds shillings and pence and where Welsh is gladly taught to infidels.
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Cyngor Sir Caerfyrddin ... Transliterate that !!!
Welsh is still a dead language made more glorious by its alliterations.
As an altenative pub meet, may I suggest The Douglas Arms in Bethesda where pints are uniquely sold in pounds shillings and pence and where Welsh is gladly taught to infidels.
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david_e
Active member
Welsh language
Nige, Welsh is a growing language, statistically proven. As a Celtophile (long standing visitor to Wales) I feel a tad embarrassed by the fact that I have never really made any attempt to learn the language. After all it is their own country and they wish to live with their own language as first choice, I respect that.
Would be interested in a meet but we are always passing en route or returning and under time pressure or D & D pressure.
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Nige, Welsh is a growing language, statistically proven. As a Celtophile (long standing visitor to Wales) I feel a tad embarrassed by the fact that I have never really made any attempt to learn the language. After all it is their own country and they wish to live with their own language as first choice, I respect that.
Would be interested in a meet but we are always passing en route or returning and under time pressure or D & D pressure.
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BrendanS
Well-known member
Re:County councils..
Let's go back to basics. You provide me with the roots for all the english place names I mentioned, and then I'll translate the welsh. Difficult isn't it?
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Let's go back to basics. You provide me with the roots for all the english place names I mentioned, and then I'll translate the welsh. Difficult isn't it?
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NigeCh
New member
Araf nawr
I'm off from Reading to Y Felinheli sometime today. I'll take a note book and write what I see.
I'm not knocking Welsh or Gaelic .. It's our original language. And yes it is difficult: How would you translate 'Y Felenheli' ? .... and of course I can't provide the roots of any of the English place names that you've mention.
I buy you a pint in The Douglas later today and see who drinks it.
Cheers,
Nige
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I'm off from Reading to Y Felinheli sometime today. I'll take a note book and write what I see.
I'm not knocking Welsh or Gaelic .. It's our original language. And yes it is difficult: How would you translate 'Y Felenheli' ? .... and of course I can't provide the roots of any of the English place names that you've mention.
I buy you a pint in The Douglas later today and see who drinks it.
Cheers,
Nige
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NigeCh
New member
It\'s a great language
but I can't get my tongue around the difference between 'th' 'dd' 'ff' .... and there is a difference.
Even if it's a growing language, it's still a dead language. I'm learning Spanish and am caught between to be or not to be.
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but I can't get my tongue around the difference between 'th' 'dd' 'ff' .... and there is a difference.
Even if it's a growing language, it's still a dead language. I'm learning Spanish and am caught between to be or not to be.
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BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Araf nawr
Nige,
Y Felin = the mill
heli = salt water ( it can also mean brine or pickle)
so saltwater mill is the closest you're going to get
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Nige,
Y Felin = the mill
heli = salt water ( it can also mean brine or pickle)
so saltwater mill is the closest you're going to get
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NigeCh
New member
The sea water mill
(Sorry about us posting at about the same time)
There's no recorded history about Y Felinhli being a sea water mill.... There's no evidence to show that a sea mill ever existed there ... PD is much better ... but it's no longer on the signposts.
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(Sorry about us posting at about the same time)
There's no recorded history about Y Felinhli being a sea water mill.... There's no evidence to show that a sea mill ever existed there ... PD is much better ... but it's no longer on the signposts.
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BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: The sea water mill
You're probably being too literal in you interpretation of the meaning
It doesn't have to mean a saltwater mill, probably something more like 'mill by the sea'
The name is thought to possibly be Norse in origin (the Vikings are believed to have used it as an anchorage for raids), and some finesse lost in the translation to Welsh at a later unknown date. Any mill dating from that time would probably have been built of wood, and so no trace would exist.
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You're probably being too literal in you interpretation of the meaning
It doesn't have to mean a saltwater mill, probably something more like 'mill by the sea'
The name is thought to possibly be Norse in origin (the Vikings are believed to have used it as an anchorage for raids), and some finesse lost in the translation to Welsh at a later unknown date. Any mill dating from that time would probably have been built of wood, and so no trace would exist.
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Gunfleet
New member
A lighter note
You don't need to be in wales to get confused by roadsigns. A two mates of mine - one English, one German - were in Germany driving down the motorway. After about an hour the English one says, 'this Ausfart's a bloody big town, isn't it?' The German nearly drove of the road from laughing.
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You don't need to be in wales to get confused by roadsigns. A two mates of mine - one English, one German - were in Germany driving down the motorway. After about an hour the English one says, 'this Ausfart's a bloody big town, isn't it?' The German nearly drove of the road from laughing.
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warrior40
New member
Re: all this nonsense
I lived in Wales when I was a lad although I am English, I was forced to study GCSE Welsh, it was a huge waste of time. Wales is a beautiful place in parts, spoilt only by the Welsh!
Goodness, I have never understood why Port Dinorwic changed its name, in fact it took a while for it to dawn on me that it was the same place !! I suppose its the same reason that they took the 'a' out of Conway...
Now Pwhelli, that is a sensible name...
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I lived in Wales when I was a lad although I am English, I was forced to study GCSE Welsh, it was a huge waste of time. Wales is a beautiful place in parts, spoilt only by the Welsh!
Goodness, I have never understood why Port Dinorwic changed its name, in fact it took a while for it to dawn on me that it was the same place !! I suppose its the same reason that they took the 'a' out of Conway...
Now Pwhelli, that is a sensible name...
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Cornishman
New member
Don't unnerstan' a word of it; please re-write in Cornish
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BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: let\'s try this the other way round
I lived in England (and Scotland) when I was younger although I am Welsh, I was forced to study 'O' level English, it was a huge waste of time. England is a beautiful place in parts. Though it wasn't on the whole spoilt by the English, there was always the odd exception!
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I lived in England (and Scotland) when I was younger although I am Welsh, I was forced to study 'O' level English, it was a huge waste of time. England is a beautiful place in parts. Though it wasn't on the whole spoilt by the English, there was always the odd exception!
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B
bob_tyler
Guest
Re: A lighter note
On my first visit driving in Holland I asked some English friends living there the meaning of the road sign approaching many towns and villages which reads "Dorgand Verkeer"
When they had stopped laughing they told me that they had been just as mystified on their first arrival and looked it up in their dictionary.
This didn't help very much as it showed up as "this way for intercourse". Holland is very broadminded but they were surprised. They, and I, subsequently realised that it means "through traffic".
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On my first visit driving in Holland I asked some English friends living there the meaning of the road sign approaching many towns and villages which reads "Dorgand Verkeer"
When they had stopped laughing they told me that they had been just as mystified on their first arrival and looked it up in their dictionary.
This didn't help very much as it showed up as "this way for intercourse". Holland is very broadminded but they were surprised. They, and I, subsequently realised that it means "through traffic".
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Heckler
Active member
off on another thread
lying in hospital after medivac from angola with cerebral malaria, pretty blond doc starts to chat about SA and how terrible apartheid is and how desmond tutu is wonderful ( it was a while ago) i say he should be hung up by the rognons. she shocked thinks i am terrible, i then explain all is not black and white, that SA is inhabited by black people and white people and they both have a right to live their and did she know that the true inhabitants of SA were the little yellow bushmen, that when the english and dutch were advancing from the south that the zulus and khosi were coming from the north and the bushmen were the true originals.
she didnt like that and came out with the classic all whites should go home. i then explained that i was a dark haired complexioned native of wales and if she cared to trace my roots she would find that my descendants were probably true celts and had been pushed west by marauding blond haired blue eyed scandis and if we were to follow her argument thru to its logical conclusion that she should piss off back to where her descendants came from ie scandinavia
collapse of deflated indignant radical blue eyed blond haired (quite tasty i must say) doctor !
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lying in hospital after medivac from angola with cerebral malaria, pretty blond doc starts to chat about SA and how terrible apartheid is and how desmond tutu is wonderful ( it was a while ago) i say he should be hung up by the rognons. she shocked thinks i am terrible, i then explain all is not black and white, that SA is inhabited by black people and white people and they both have a right to live their and did she know that the true inhabitants of SA were the little yellow bushmen, that when the english and dutch were advancing from the south that the zulus and khosi were coming from the north and the bushmen were the true originals.
she didnt like that and came out with the classic all whites should go home. i then explained that i was a dark haired complexioned native of wales and if she cared to trace my roots she would find that my descendants were probably true celts and had been pushed west by marauding blond haired blue eyed scandis and if we were to follow her argument thru to its logical conclusion that she should piss off back to where her descendants came from ie scandinavia
collapse of deflated indignant radical blue eyed blond haired (quite tasty i must say) doctor !
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