alexrunic
Well-Known Member
I have used a Origo 3000 for many years, I find it easy and cheap to use and use the boat a lot. It can be a little smelly some times but never a real problem. Much safer than gas that's for sure.
Galley, Gas v Spirit comments
- Thread starter johnjfrake
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mattnj
Well-Known Member
I am wondering if my discs are the correct thing, thinking about it i think they are porous, kind of neoprene material, i will make some new ones up, whats a good material to use? also, how much fuel do you put it to fill it up fully?
FlyingDutchman
Well-Known Member
We also have the origo 3000. It smells but it cooks ok. The cannisters should be filled to a level so that if you put the cannister on its side (like a wheel) it should not flow out. The original origo discs are neoprene (foamy) rubber. The only problem we had was filling the cannisters from a 5 l can. I made up a cap for the can with 50cm of transparent hose attached to it. Now I can just put the can on it's side and by raising or lowering the cannister regulate the flow. Not a drop spilled and easy to control!
MonniotC
Well-Known Member
The instruction manual is here: http://www.dometic.com/enie/International/Site/Customer-Center/Operation-Installation-Manuals/ under hobs-stoves
Filling instructions are in the manual. If you are filling the tanks to the brim you are doing it wrong. Instructions are also either on the bottom of the tanks or inside the stove - I can't remember offhand.
Neoprene should not be porous. It's what hatch seals, wetsuits, and bilge-pump diaphragms
are made of. Nitrile would probably be better. My disks were cut from an old pair of rubber gloves.
Otter
Well-Known Member
We have had Origo's on the last 3 boats and love them. We live onboard for 6 weeks each summer and because we use proper denatured alcohol rather than meths there's no smell. The fuel is safe to store, the kettle boils quickly and the Origo oven is superb.
Gas is a bit quicker but its inherent safety issues worried me - I had to have 100% faith in the last owners installation and gas leaks are the biggest cause of fire on boats - "one flash and you're ash".
Gas is a bit quicker but its inherent safety issues worried me - I had to have 100% faith in the last owners installation and gas leaks are the biggest cause of fire on boats - "one flash and you're ash".
MonniotC
Well-Known Member
Where do you get it from (apart from France)?
Gordonmc
Well-Known Member
I concur.
I have been using an American-made pressure alcohol stove for three years on my boat - prompted by the lack of anywhere I can put a gas locker. The cockpit is not self draining so anything heavier than air goes straight into the bilges.
The cooker came second-hand from Bilbo of this parish (where is he?)
The stove has three burners and an oven which is far more efficient than any of the three gas stoves I had on previous boats.
Clear IMS (Industrial Methylated Spirit) is the stuff. A can costing around £12 will do me for months.
Seajet
...
I have a gas, twin burner & grill cooker, properly gimballed & with pan clamps.
My neighbour ( both ashore and at moorings ! ) has an identical Anderson 22 with an Origo.
I have sailed on his boat now & again, it always stinks of meths, and he hardly uses the cooker let alone overfill it; when it has been used it takes ages to boil a kettle.
It also costs him a LOT to run when he does use it.
I asked him recently which system he prefers, and he says he wouldn't hesitate to go for gas, it's just that he can't be bothered to change everything ( the Origo was on his boat already ).
On our boats the gas bottle is probably going to be in an extended bridgedeck, so the valve is easily reachable from the saloon, no reason for leaks ( the tubing is one piece and well fitted ) , and I change the flexible hose every winter.
The Origo is easy to plonk into place, but I feel a mistake; with either, proper gimbals & pan clamps are essential, the Origo scores here as these are probably more easily available, with gas cookers it's a case of hunting around.
My neighbour ( both ashore and at moorings ! ) has an identical Anderson 22 with an Origo.
I have sailed on his boat now & again, it always stinks of meths, and he hardly uses the cooker let alone overfill it; when it has been used it takes ages to boil a kettle.
It also costs him a LOT to run when he does use it.
I asked him recently which system he prefers, and he says he wouldn't hesitate to go for gas, it's just that he can't be bothered to change everything ( the Origo was on his boat already ).
On our boats the gas bottle is probably going to be in an extended bridgedeck, so the valve is easily reachable from the saloon, no reason for leaks ( the tubing is one piece and well fitted ) , and I change the flexible hose every winter.
The Origo is easy to plonk into place, but I feel a mistake; with either, proper gimbals & pan clamps are essential, the Origo scores here as these are probably more easily available, with gas cookers it's a case of hunting around.
Windhover
Member
I have no experience of spirit stoves and we have gas on board. However in casual chat with the professional gas engineer who checked out our gas system after we bought the boat he admitted that he had a spirit stove on board his boat because gas was too dangrous!
Otter
Well-Known Member
Chemicals company in Scotland but I can't remember who they were! These chaps are a bit more expensive, I paid £50 for 20L delivered and I didn't need to apply for a licence. After a very heavy seasons' use including lots of oven roasts we still have about 8L left.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INDUSTRIAL-DENATURED-ALCOHOL-IDA-Industrial-Meths-5L-/270657238453?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f046db5b5#ht_597wt_1141
mattnj
Well-Known Member
im sorry, but what you are saying is just wrong...
Firstly, if it "stinks of meths" then thats becuase he is using the wrong fuel, so its irrelavent, it would stink of burning bannans if he filled it up with bannana juice, that would be wrong too?
It also does not takes "ages" to boil when used correctly, maybe that is because he is using the wrong fuel too, or maybe he isnt boiling water, maybe he is boing lava?
Dont get me wrong i think they have a few small downsides, and if there was no safety issue, or it wasn't already installed, i would probably go for gas, having owned both, but to say they stink of meths and takes ages to heat things is just wrong.
On a small boat an Origo is the business!
yerffoeg
Well-Known Member
I am a big fan of the Origo. Smell is not a problem if you ventilate adequately when cooking, and put on the rubber pads over the meths tanks when not cooking. One advantage that has not been mentioned is the saving in space and hassle asssociated with an approved gas bottle installation.
Seajet
...
mattnj,
As I've been on both boats over the last 12 years ( the time my chum has had his boat ) and tried both systems, and you weren't there, I must have imagined these experiences, but anyway you know better.
As for 'proper fuel', this is where the Origo falls down, isn't it ?!
The Origo's main advantage is easy installation for people who don't know how to or can't be bothered to fit gas; and yes I've seen a boat with gas blow up - and I mean BLOW UP, Thunderbirds style ! - as usual, a c**p installation being used by a particularly clueless person.
Anyway, what matters is I was there and you weren't, so I must be wrong...
As I've been on both boats over the last 12 years ( the time my chum has had his boat ) and tried both systems, and you weren't there, I must have imagined these experiences, but anyway you know better.
As for 'proper fuel', this is where the Origo falls down, isn't it ?!
The Origo's main advantage is easy installation for people who don't know how to or can't be bothered to fit gas; and yes I've seen a boat with gas blow up - and I mean BLOW UP, Thunderbirds style ! - as usual, a c**p installation being used by a particularly clueless person.
Anyway, what matters is I was there and you weren't, so I must be wrong...
mattnj
Well-Known Member
mattnj,
As I've been on both boats over the last 12 years ( the time my chum has had his boat ) and tried both systems, and you weren't there, I must have imagined these experiences, but anyway you know better.
As for 'proper fuel', this is where the Origo falls down, isn't it ?!
The Origo's main advantage is easy installation for people who don't know how to or can't be bothered to fit gas; and yes I've seen a boat with gas blow up - and I mean BLOW UP, Thunderbirds style ! - as usual, a c**p installation being used by a particularly clueless person.
Anyway, what matters is I was there and you weren't, so I must be wrong...
er, no the bloke has/had the wrong fuel in it...
Im not arguing that it wasn't cr*p/smelly when you were there, read what i said, i am saying if it isnt being used correctly, as per your post, not mine, then you can't say they are rubbish really.
Thats like me saying, my petrol outboard is cr*p, smelly and runs badly with no power, and doesnt start, oh and by the way im running it on cows p!ss, the problem is with the operator, not the product.
The manual clearly says DO NOT USE METHS, so people that do will have the problems you describe, hence incorrectly think they are a bad product.
Im sure your gas stove says dont use this type of gas, or that type of gas, or this pressure etc, if you ignored that, it would be cr&p too?
pot/kettle, read the manual, use the correct fuel...
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rhumbunctious
Well-Known Member
I wonder what kind of fuel you were using. I liveaboard and have an Origo 3000 which I love and works great.
Seajet
...
And as I said, 'that's where the Origo falls down'.
The 'proper' fuel is not easily available, how many posts have I seen here and elsewhere asking people where did they get it, and at a decent price !
Hence people using meths...
The 'proper' fuel is not easily available, how many posts have I seen here and elsewhere asking people where did they get it, and at a decent price !
Hence people using meths...
mattnj
Well-Known Member
Ah! We are now talking about something very different....
How good is an origo if i use the wrong fuel would return a different set of answers maybe?
Its easy enough to find i think, you can but it online in 3 clicks and 2mins!
johnjfrake
Well-Known Member
Thanks to all for the replies, comments and advice! I intend to go ahead with a spirit cooker, probably an Origo. Gas just sounds like too much hassle.
Regards
John
Regards
John
Nealo
Well-Known Member
I'm very interested in this debate. One factor that affects those who venture inland on their boats is the dreaded Boat Safety Certificate, and I reckon gas installations must be the biggest cause of failure to comply with the regulations. It's interesting how inboard petrol engined boats are now regarded as inherently dangerous when once they were the norm. I wonder how long it will be before onboard gas goes the same way. On the inland waterways there are many boat owners/builders going to great lengths to go gas free.
Propane sinks, petrol/alchohol fumes go up. That's got to be a consideration on a boat.
Also with gas you are at the mercy of a CORGI registered fitter whenever you want to change anything, and a yearly safety check is recommended.
I do like the simplicity of a spirit stove, but I too have heard the stories about fumes, expense, inefficiency etc. I'm sure though that these problems are associated with using meths as the fuel, as it is the easiest one to obtain. Meths is deliberately made to smell awful.
Given that you can get other forms of alchohol such as surgical spirit and isopropanol in bulk quantities, are these suitable for origo type stoves?
Propane sinks, petrol/alchohol fumes go up. That's got to be a consideration on a boat.
Also with gas you are at the mercy of a CORGI registered fitter whenever you want to change anything, and a yearly safety check is recommended.
I do like the simplicity of a spirit stove, but I too have heard the stories about fumes, expense, inefficiency etc. I'm sure though that these problems are associated with using meths as the fuel, as it is the easiest one to obtain. Meths is deliberately made to smell awful.
Given that you can get other forms of alchohol such as surgical spirit and isopropanol in bulk quantities, are these suitable for origo type stoves?
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
You sure about that? All other things being equal, gas density is proportional to molecular weight.
Air is 80% N2 (m.w. 28) and 20% O2 (m.w. 32) so has an effective m.w. of 29 (ish).
Propane (C3H8) has m.w. 44 and therefore sinks, as you say. Petrol is heavier hydrocarbons and therefore even denser than propane. Ethanol (C2H5OH) has m.w. 46 and therefore just a tad denser than propane.
Methanol (CH3OH, m.w. 32) has the same gas density as oxygen and I'd therefore expect it to diffuse away pretty fast. Same with ethane (C2H6, m.w. 30). Methane (CH4, m.w. 16) is lighetr than air, which is one reason it was used - as a component of Blau Gas - as fuel in the Graf Zeppelin airship.